40/50 Gallon Tank Planning

[alia258]

Hi guys! I ended up picking the getting started spot because I'm starting the planning for my tank before I actually get it. So, this is the starting that has to do with doing HW on the fish I want and knowing what I need to keep the tank in order. Below I have each list of things I'll have in the tank. A * means that I already have it and a (?) after means I'm not sure if I'll be getting it. The first list is of things I have. I'll be getting both male and female fish in hopes that they'll breed at one point or another, a ~ after a species means that I don't know how to sex the fish.

Tools in my possession:
-10-25g gravel vacuum (can I use it for the bigger tank?)
-StressCoat+ dechlorinator
-copper based meds for ich, external parasites, and velvet
-floating breeder box
-10g fully stocked with cycled filter and happy fish

Plants:
-anacharis*
-frogbit
-Mexican oak leaf
-micro sword
-java moss

Fish:
-female or male guppies*
-neon tetras*
-black skirt tetras
-peppered Cory catfish
-Otto cats (Otocinclus)
-mollies
-BN plecos (mating pair) (?)
-angel fish (mating pair)

I haven't made plans for the gravel or decor yet. I'd like more suggestions on plants, anything that likes 78°F and neutral water would be nice. And any plants that are brighter or colorful would be great! I'd also like suggestions on fish to get that might be more appealing to the eye. And I'd like your guys suggestions on how many of each fish that I listed that I should get (unless I put mating pair next to it)

I have a few questions about the tank size as well:
-will the cycling take longer because the tank is larger?
-how many hiding spots would be needed for fish happiness?
-are there any limits I might face with such a large aquarium?

I thank you in advance for your input!

 

[alia258]

I forgot the ~ on the fish part:

-female or male guppies*
-neon tetras* ~
-black skirt tetras~
-peppered Cory catfish~
-Otto cats (Otocinclus)~
-mollies~
-BN plecos (mating pair) (?)
-angel fish (mating pair)~

 

[brunettebaby4571]

I went from a 20 gallon to a 40 gallon and I just put the same filter in and used the same fish and also got another bigger filter and everyone was just fine. I think it will be okay as long as you add the new fish slowly so the bacteria can keep up with it.

 

[librarygirl]

My replies below in blue.....

Hi guys! I ended up picking the getting started spot because I'm starting the planning for my tank before I actually get it. So, this is the starting that has to do with doing HW on the fish I want and knowing what I need to keep the tank in order. Below I have each list of things I'll have in the tank. A * means that I already have it and a (?) after means I'm not sure if I'll be getting it. The first list is of things I have. I'll be getting both male and female fish in hopes that they'll breed at one point or another, a ~ after a species means that I don't know how to sex the fish.

Tools in my possession:
-10-25g gravel vacuum (can I use it for the bigger tank?) - yes should be fine. For a larger tank you might consider an automatic changer like the Aqueon; it connects to your faucet and you can drain and refill right from there without needing buckets.
-StressCoat+ dechlorinator - I'd recommend Seachem Prime over Stresscoat
-copper based meds for ich, external parasites, and velvet - I wouldn't bother stocking meds until you need them
-floating breeder box
-10g fully stocked with cycled filter and happy fish
- how about a test kit? API Master is best

Plants: - largely will depend on your lighting and whether you are dosing ferts or have CO2.
-anacharis*
-frogbit
-Mexican oak leaf
-micro sword
-java moss

Fish:
-female or male guppies* - how many do you have now?
-neon tetras* - how many do you have now?
-black skirt tetras
-peppered Cory catfish
-Otto cats (Otocinclus)
-mollies
-BN plecos (mating pair) (?) - they need real driftwood in the tank to munch on for digestion
-angel fish (mating pair) - I'd be careful with a mating pair of Angels in a community tank. THey can become aggressive and territorial when mating. Also will the tank be a long or tall? Angels need height so if it's a long tank it might not be tall enough for them. Also I'm pretty sure the Neons will become food for the ANgels.

I haven't made plans for the gravel or decor yet.
If you're getting a Pleco, I think it might prefer sand or small gravel.

I'd like more suggestions on plants, anything that likes 78°F and neutral water would be nice. And any plants that are brighter or colorful would be great!
Again it mostly depends on what lighting you are going to have. Plants light Java Fern and ANubias can do well in almost any light. Other plants need more light; and the more light you have the more potential for algae so you'd need to balance lighting and ferts and CO2; I'm still learning -- I find it rather complicated so for now I have the standard lights and low-light plants, you might want to start with those.

What filter are you planning on getting? Recommended size is double the filtration for your tank, so if you're getting a 50 gal you want filtration rated for at leat 100 gals. A canister would be good for a larger tank (Fluval 406 maybe), or a HOB like an Aquaclear 110.

I see you have a 10 gal cycled tank with some fish you are planning to move to the larger tank right? The filter on your 10 gal has enough bacteria to support your current load. So I'd suggest getting the larger filter and moving the media and fish from the 10 gal to the larger tank then fill up the new filter the restof the way with new media and let the tank run for 3-4 weeks to help seed the new filter media, then add fish very slowly (1-3 every 2-3 weeks depending on size) and monitor your levels and do water changes as needed; only add more fish if nitrite and ammonia stay at 0 consistenly for at least 1-2 weeks).

I'd also like suggestions on fish to get that might be more appealing to the eye. And I'd like your guys suggestions on how many of each fish that I listed that I should get (unless I put mating pair next to it)
You could probably do:
4 guppies
6 Neons
6 Black skirt
4 Peppered Corys
2 Ottos (I'd wait a few months at least to put these in though. They largely eat certain forms of algae and can starve if there isnt enough natural algae for them to eat. Not all of them will take to eating wafers, etc)
2 Molly
2 BN Pleco
As for the angels, I'd either just get one for a centerpiece or forego them entirely. Maybe others with angels in community tanks will offer more advice though

I have a few questions about the tank size as well:
-will the cycling take longer because the tank is larger? - No, see my note above. Or are you planning to fishless cycle? Even then it shouldn't take longer due to the tank size.
-how many hiding spots would be needed for fish happiness? - probably a few for the plecos, at least. not sure about the others, you can never have too many hiding spots I guess lol
-are there any limits I might face with such a large aquarium? - none that I can think of. But just because it's larger there are still limits in regards to stocking

I thank you in advance for your input!

 

[alia258]

So after reading all that, I'll only get one angel fish (are males or females prettier?) and I'm going to do a fish in cycle. I have 3 guppies (and 12 5 day old offspring) and 3 neon tetras.

 

[brunettebaby4571]

From what I have read it is really hard to tell the sex of angelfish unless they are spawning...Maybe someone else can help with the sexing though. The veil tails sure are pretty though And what I was saying is that the filter you have on the ten gallon is enough for the bioload of the fish that you already have until you get more than you will have to slowly add them so the bacteria can catch up with the bioload. What library girl was saying is that when you get a new filter you can just put the old one in the tank with the new filter and it will seed the new filter. Which is what I did but I kept the new filter and the old filter in there (guess you cant go wrong with over filtration)

 

[somethingsfishy]

I wouldnt worry about the angel fish eating the other fish as much as the aggression the have when spawning. If you notice a spawn you could get a piece of slate and put it to one side of the tank and keep the angel pair to that side. Angel fish are a nice center piece fish. I have seven in my tank but only one pair so far and I also have 7 glo fish and have had no trouble between them. Just get a few small angels and when two pair off remove the others.

 

[somethingsfishy]

P.S. black skirts are aggressive towards angels.

 

[alia258]

I think I might drop the angels, I had more hopes set on black and white skirts, because black skirts are so pretty and white skirts turn a paler color of the food you feed them (which means since the food I feed my fish are red, I'll have pastel pink fish!) so, let's drop the angels from the list and replace it with a different eye catcher/center peice. Any ideas guys? I'm up for practically any fish! And also, I wanted to add glo fish to the mix, will that work out? And how many is recommended for a group?

 

[alia258]

So here's my stocking list (I changed it a little)
- 8 guppies (2 male 5 female)
- 6 neon tetras
- 4 black skirt tetras
- 4 "white" skirt tetras
- 4 peppered cories
- 2 otto cats
- 2 mollies (1 male 1 female)
- 8 glo fish (2 blue 2 red 2 orange 2 yellow)

I'd really like if you guys could come up with a more eye catching fish that might get along with the others, and if I decide to get it (whatever you say, if I like it enough) then the larger numbers (4+) will go down (except Cory cats and neon tetras)

 

[librarygirl]

So here's my stocking list (I changed it a little)
- 8 guppies (2 male 5 female)
- 6 neon tetras
- 4 black skirt tetras
- 4 "white" skirt tetras
- 4 peppered cories
- 2 otto cats
- 2 mollies (1 male 1 female)
- 8 glo fish (2 blue 2 red 2 orange 2 yellow)

I'd really like if you guys could come up with a more eye catching fish that might get along with the others, and if I decide to get it (whatever you say, if I like it enough) then the larger numbers (4+) will go down (except Cory cats and neon tetras)

With the Glofish and Neons the larger numbers for a school the better as their personalities will come out more and they'll be less aggression between them so I wouldn't reduce those numbers any. In fact, you might up the Neon numbers to 10 (they can be sensitive fish due to inbreeding and other factors; you might consider cardinal tetras instead. They look similar and I've read they can be more hardy).

I've read various things about black/white skirts being aggressive toward guppies due to their fins. It might depend on how many of each you have and the fish's personalities but just be prepared to return the tetras if problems arise. Or you could replace them with something more peaceful; harlequin rasbora maybe?

So you could do what you said above, but increase the neons to 10 (or replace with cardinals) and replace the tetras with 6-8 harlequins. For a centerpiece you could do a dwarf gourami. Or maybe a German Blue Ram (not sure, maybe someone else can confirm this).

With the guppies though, given that they are opposite sex I'd be careful about breeding. Your tank would be fully stocked if you put in the fish above and when guppies have babies the tank is going to be too overstocked for the fish to co-exist comfortably. So either leave the guppies in their own tank or have some place to put the guppy babies when you get them. Same with the mollies if you were going to breed those, too.

 

[alia258]

I wasn't going to breed the mollies, but for the guppies they'll have a place for the offspring. I'll have to look into those fish you mentioned, I've never seen any of them before. Thanks

 

[alia258]

I don't like the harlequin rasboras, they're nice fish, but the coloring doesn't go with my mental image of my fish tank. The German blue ram and dwarf gurami look like great center peices for my tank, I'll have to see what me lfs stocks! I don't think my lfs stocks the fish that looks like neon tetras, I've never seen it but I will definitely look into it. Maybe I'll bring the number of guppies down a little (to 2 males and 4 females) and have 10 neons instead. Are you sure that the fish you mentioned to be the center peice are completely non-aggressive towards smaller fish? And also, I was reading about black skirts and it said that in larger groups they tend to nip tails less, does that hold truth?

 

[brunettebaby4571]

Welll I hate to break it to you but mollies don't care whether you are using them for breeding or not...they will do it lol and I would get 3 females to 1 male...I have one male and two females right now and the male still gets a little carried away so I am going to get another female soon. With the otos I would wait til the end to get those (I have never had any) but I have read a lot about them and them being super sensitive (which is why I still don't have any) I don't wanna get any til I know I can keep them and I was told to get atleast 3 of them. I even tried growing some algae on rocks for them to eat but apparently I am the only person in the world who can't grow algae...haha

 

[alia258]

Welll I hate to break it to you but mollies don't care whether you are using them for breeding or not...they will do it lol and I would get 3 females to 1 male...I have one male and two females right now and the male still gets a little carried away so I am going to get another female soon. With the otos I would wait til the end to get those (I have never had any) but I have read a lot about them and them being super sensitive (which is why I still don't have any) I don't wanna get any til I know I can keep them and I was told to get atleast 3 of them. I even tried growing some algae on rocks for them to eat but apparently I am the only person in the world who can't grow algae...haha

Haha I'm only getting males, there aren't gonna be any females in the tank, so no babies from the mollies! (they breed faster than guppies and rabbits put together) XD

 

[somethingsfishy]

Less nippage is still nippage. Anything with fins will be bothered. Gbr are nice fish. I plan to get some for my tank when the Angels pair off. I know you Like the skirts but they limit your tank stock.

 

[alia258]

Well I was thinking I'd get some and be prepared to take them back if they nip the other fish. Every fish is different, and I'm hoping to pick out calmer ones. I'll be adding plenty of hiding spots for the guppies so they don't get stressed out (frogbit and some dwarf water lettuce) so I'm hoping they get along. You never really know untill you actually put the fish together how they'll act ^^

 

[GuppyLover]

I have a trio of Black Skirts with my two angels and I have yet to see any nipping even with such a small school. (don't worry I'm upping the numbers in a week or so when my lfs gets more in) Just my personal experience!!

 

[brunettebaby4571]

You are right about every fish is different. I have a betta and he has never had any problems with any other fish. He is a cool little dude! But like you said just keep an eye out and if they nip or anything just return them. My mollies have wonderful personalities always come to say hello when I am near the tank and if my hands are in the tank well the mollies are basically in my hands lol

 

[somethingsfishy]

I definitely agree they differ. And as long as you understand that somthing may need to be removed. I'm all for it. I kept tiger barbs with my angels for months. All was good.