Bio-spira, Cycle

[TankGirl]

I believe there are lots of factors that can impact the cycle that we are often unaware of, or ones that we are aware of like pH, temperature and fish load. If Stability has worked, then there is no reason not to continue to use it, and sing its praises, and the overall cost is less, since you'd spend around $20 US to use Bio-Spira on a 55gal.

You can fail with Bio-Spira if you add enough bacteria for the size of the tank but there are not enough fish in there to produce the amount of ammonia to support the bacteria. The excess bacteria will die off and produce ammonia (correct me if I am wrong here, Bernie).

 

[greenmaji]

I believe there are lots of factors that can impact the cycle that we are often unaware of, or ones that we are aware of like pH, temperature and fish load. If Stability has worked, then there is no reason not to continue to use it, and sing its praises, and the overall cost is less, since you'd spend around $20 US to use Bio-Spira on a 55gal.

You can fail with Bio-Spira if you add enough bacteria for the size of the tank but there are not enough fish in there to produce the amount of ammonia to support the bacteria. The excess bacteria will die off and produce ammonia (correct me if I am wrong here, Bernie).

anything organic that dies in the water is going to produce more ammonia your right there..
I think your on the right track here.. If the product isnt working it could always be a factor that has nothing to do with the product.. Enough dissolved O2 being available is another one I can think of off the top of my head.. PH becomes a factor down at the 5.5 level.. and if the water is a little on the cool side low to mid 70's thats going to make the cycle take longer as well, metabolism slows down.. there is alot more to cycling a tank than adding a chemical.. im sure everyone is aware of that.. it can be easy to forget it though when your buying something that claims to cycle the water for you though..

 

[Guest]

of course! if its in a spore it can survive in almost any environment, i didn't even think about that.

 

[Guest]

I am not biased and I used it and didn't have the desired results. Now that I have used it and it did nothing for me, would I use it again? No. So maybe now I am because of previous experience. But at the time I wasn't. So your comment Tony that people that are unbiased are having good results is not really accurate.

Besides yourself, my comment is accurate, you are the only person I have every heard of not having good results with Stability. I could be wrong, I'm just basing it on what I've read on this board, but it seems like everyone else that has tried it has liked it (including myself). I feel that Bio-Spira is a great product too, but I have heard of more people having problems with it than Stability.

Still, with ANY product I would not fill the tank to 100% bioload right off the bat. I'm not surprised you had poor results like that, and I don't think you would have been any happier with Bio-Spira. I cycled a 55g tank in two weeks with Stability and I had no fish loss. Thats pretty darn quick. I'm sure I could have done the same thing with a good batch of Bio-Spira, but why pay the extra money?

 

[Jchillin]

Ok folks, I have my answer from Seachem:

Stability is a mixture of bacteria. It is not the normal nitrosoma
and nitrobacter bacteria. It is a much hardier bacteria that
consume ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and organics. The exact species is
proprietary information.

The only possible reason for not identifying the exact bacteria may be due to it being an already on the market product, ie Bio-Spira. It certainly shows that Seachem doesn't want anyone to mistake their product with "Cycle". Hmmm...???

 

[Guest]

Ok folks, I have my answer from Seachem:

Stability is a mixture of bacteria. It is not the normal nitrosoma
and nitrobacter bacteria. It is a much hardier bacteria that
consume ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and organics. The exact species is
proprietary information.

The only possible reason for not identifying the exact bacteria may be due to it being an already on the market product, ie Bio-Spira. It certainly shows that Seachem doesn't want anyone to mistake their product with "Cycle". Hmmm...???

Write Coke or Pepsi asking for what is in their product and you will get the same response.

 

[Jchillin]

I have mentioned this so often that its beginning to hurt my ears. "Cycle" lists their ingredient...nitrosoma and nitrobacter. Bio-Spira states that their ingredient is nitrospira, a different bacteria altogether. Seachem will not divulge what ingredient is in their product. What is the mixture? They say it's not nitrosomas or nitrobacter...what else is left other than nitrospira?

Bio-Spira claims to "instantly" cycle the tank
Cycle claims to "aid in the cycling of the tank
Seachem claims to "quickly cycle the tank in 7 days"

We are comparing apples and oranges. All the products mentioned make different claims and it should be left at that. Whether they work or not is obviously based on individuals and their own maintenance, bio-load and patience level as stated previously.

The major problem here is: Most new aquarists do not have this information at their fingertips when they begin the hobby. LFS will sell/recommend one or more of the above (if at all) thereby convincing the new aquarist that this is a magic wand and it just isn't if not used properly and knowing what to expect when it doesn't.

 

[jersysman]

There is NEVER an absolute in anything. Except that we all will die someday. If a certain product works for you. Fine. But, I would venture to say that there are others that it did not work, for one reason or another. This thread seems to be splitting into two camps. It hurts those of us who have not used either, but would like good information so that we can make an informed decision. There is no "one" right way to do anything. If we have more than one product that will give you an instant cycle, that is good. If the product did not work for you, then that should be shared and that information should not be bandied about like it wasn't true. This reminds me of another thread where it was asked what is "the" best canister filter. Those who liked one brand just jumped all over those who liked another brand. I know this response is all over the map, but it gets frustrating when I want to know some information on a subject that I am interested in and it becomes akin to two different camps making sales pitches for their particular product and lo if someone disagrees with them. There, I've said it. Now, back to learning more about fish keeping. I hope!

 

[Fishyfanatic]

Thank you.

 

[Jchillin]

That's been my contention all along.

 

[greenmaji]

jerysman... I understand what your thinking.. filtration is old engineering its all basically the same, alot of the argument was opinion and experience, as to quality, apples to apples comparison (I do not want to start that argument so please no one quote me on this).. this chemical use for cycling belive it or not is fairly new technology, apples to oranges. I am definitely not in a "camp", I have not used any of these products, I do know that bio-spira has a proven track record though. The only question left for me was wether or not Seachem's product would be a suitable substitute for bio-spira, and it seems that it just might be.. it seems that it might not work quite as fast as bio-spira, but 1-2 weeks is alot faster than a fish or fishless cycle.

 

[jersysman]

Greenmagi, that is what I wanted to know as well. I've done some research on the subject and I come to this forum to find out some good information on the products. By the way, I have found that bio-spira has been around for over 2 years. But still, I thought the thread was getting a little bit off the beaten track. Information is king. This is what these forums are all about. I enjoy reading and participating in them because we are getting information and gaining knowledge. That is the beauty of them, and sometimes, we have to remind ourselves of that fact.

 

[greenmaji]

2 years to me is relatively new.. filter designs have changed little for multiple decades..
I try to not give the posts that get off track too much attention and just keep on going.. By the way the last time I set up a tank was about three years ago.. so all of this is relatively new to me.. thats why I joined this forum.. I also wanted to learn about parts of the hobby that I havnt tried yet.. planted aquariums are relatively new to the hobby in the US as well so my knowledge was lacking in that subject as well.. Im getting up to speed pretty quick and it makes me need to do something about my empty tank fast..LOL.

 

[Guest]

Now this is getting off track

 

[Jchillin]

Considering the information that has been posted in this thread, did anyone find it informatiive or useful? Are the differences between the three products clearly stated?

 

[bzbee]

If anyone is interested in reading the patent disclosures for Biospira, here's a link
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph...html&r=0&p=1&f=S&l=50&Query=in/hovanec&d=PG01
As greenmagi surmised, it's the application of the bacteria and the process of preparing it for commercial distribution that is patented, not the actual bacteria if it's freely occurring, but you can patent a man-made strain.

Anyone know the specific reasearcher name associated with Stabilty so I can look it up?

 

[caudelfin]

Bio-Spira, Cycle

Ashley,
I see you have many answers, so I thought I would throw my 2 cents worth in also.

I have found Cycle seldom works for me. But I have also found that Stress Zyme and Bactor Plus Liquid works about half the time. I personally believe if any of the above has been on the dealers shelf too long, the bacteria or probably dead. I have a better success rate just using gravel from another of my aquariums that has already cycled. About a week, sometimes less and I have been know to put a piece of Aquarium Filter Fiber -- no chemicals added like most fiber products-- in a biological converter and let it grow some bacteria for a month or so and put it in with the new tank's bacteria converter.

Check these for some interesting reading:
http://www.marineland.com/science/biospirarep/13Nitrospira.asp
http://www.marineland.com/science/biospirarep/6Nitrobacter.asp
http://www.marineland.com/science/biospirarep/15AmOxBact.asp

And just to read some good advice go here:
http://www.marineland.com/science/dr_tim/drtims_articles.asp
caudelfin

 

[Bernie]

Nitrobacter and Nitrosommas are basically general categories or "family" of bacteria. Which is what Cycle, Stability, etc refer to. They are not and DO NOT work the same way.

Bio-Spira is a specific strain of live nitrifying bacteria in freshwater called
"Nitrospira" and "Nitrosospira"......... AGAIN its DIFFERENT!!!!
NO OTHER PRODUCT contains these bacteria!!! As as been stated time and again both on this thread as well as others!!

For other companies to claim "propeitary" rights is simply a "cop-out" for not revealing its just "snake oil". I ran into the same crap when dealing with Fritz directly.
Marineland has ALWAYS stated the EXACT contents of Bio-Spira!

Bernie

 

[Bhunsucker]

so does Bio-Spira work?

 

[Fishyfanatic]

Yes Bhunsucker. Bio-Spira works when the directions are followed correctly.