Cycling and stocking help

[Vallorn]

I have a 55g tank that I made the classic mistake of stocking before cycling. It's been well over a month now and I still don't have any trace of nitrites or nitrates. I've been doing almost daily water changes to keep the ammonia down to .25 or less. The tank has the following fish in it:

5 glofish
5 cory catfish
5 red minor tetras
1 angelfish
3 dwarf gouramis
1 common pleco

I have another tank, a 20g, which I'm currently getting to the end of a fishless cycle on. Is it possible for me to relocate the fish I have now to the 20g tank temporarily so that I can attempt to cycle the larger tank? Aside from the pleco all of the fish are relatively small - none of them are full grown yet.

I am assuming the other alternative would be to get some additional filter media, put it in the cycled tank, and then use it to seed the larger tank. If I went this route, how long would it take to seed the new filter media before transferring it to the larger tank? Is this even a good idea?

Also aside from the pleco and angelfish, is it possible to make the 20g the permanent home for the fish I have now? I'd like to possibly keep cichlids or other larger fish in the 55g.

 

[Galligak]

What type of cories? And only one dwarf gourami could go in the 20 gallon. If you seeded media in the cycled tank it would take about 1-2 weeks. You could always take some of the media from the cycled tank and put it in the non cycled tank.


Also this was your first question: You could put most of those fish in the 20 gallon and have the others in the non cycled tank, but fish in cycles are also very good too. I would take out the glofish, the cories, the tetras, and one dwarf gourami, which would be the stocking of the 20 gallon once done

I think that this answers all your questions Good luck!

 

[jcolon]

Are you using the API test master kit to measure your parameters? If so what is the pH? Unless the cycled has stalled somehow, after a month of a fish in cycle ... you should show some form of NO2/ NO3 by now.

Either option would work. For now you can home all of them in the 20 until you get the 55 fishess cycled .... or use some substrate, decor and or filter media (if possible) from the cycled 20 to seed the 55. That's how I would do it if your fish are not showing any signs of stress.

I can't speak for the other fish, but aside from the pleco and angel fish as you mentioned ... Serpae (red Minor)tetras would do better in a tank larger than 20 ... though literature online says a 20 can be the min

 

[eco23]

I agree that it seems something is up with the test results, you should definitely be showing some no2 and / or no3 by now. If you're using test strips that could be a cause for inaccurate readings...another possibility is that your tap water contains ammonia and every time you change water it is actually being added and showing on your test kit when you are testing daily, leading you to believe more pwc's are needed (but again, there'd have to be faulty no3 readings for that to be plausible).

Do you have a specific purpose for the 20 gallon with a particular time frame of when it needs to be stocked? You said you're near the end of the fishless cycle?

This is gonna sound a bit extreme...but here's what I'd do if those tanks were in my house. I would personally consider the 20 gallon a Petrie dish for growing bacteria that I needed for the 55. I'd remove all the media from the 20, place it into the 55 and add new filters into the 20. It'll put a major dent into your fishless cycle, but if you've been cycling at a high ppm of ammonia in the 20, it should be able to quickly stabilize the 55 with all the bacteria you'll be bringing over. I'd continue cycling the 20 just as you were (only with a major setback), and once the larger tank proves stable for a while...you can slowly start returning media back to the 20 to help with the fishless cycle.

It sucks to basically ditch or reverse the progress you've gained with the fishless tank...but my priority would obviously be getting the tank with fish stabilized as soon as possible and worry about the empty one later.

 

[Vallorn]

Yep, I am using the API freshwater master test kit. The ph is usually around 7.6-7.8. I've tested the water in the 55g quite a bit and it's never shown any signs of nitrite or nitrate. The ammonia rises pretty fast though (well, I am assuming it's fast) but it rises .25+ each day.

To be honest, I'm not sure about the cory catfish. I know they are green corys but I don't know their size. If I keep 2 dgs in the 55g, are dgs compatible with cichlids?

 

[Galligak]

I wouldn't put the cories in the 20 gallon. I agree with Eco and jcolon on their opinions. You could put some of the dwarf cichlids in there like kribis, Bolivian and German blue rams.

 

[Vallorn]

eco23,

I've tested my tap water and it doesn't have any ammonia that I can tell. The 20g is just an attempt at a planted tank. I kind of wanted to put a couple of dwarf cichlids in it but I can't find them in my area. While I can special order fish at the lfs, they've called their supplier and weren't able to order the fish I was looking for. So plan B was to move what fish I could from the 55g to the 20g and make the 55g a cichlid tank.

 

[Galligak]

There are other places to get The cichlids. Like from SM, aquabid, etc. I think that the tetras,the glofish and one dwarf gourami could go in the 20 gallon. There's room for either ottos, smaller cories, or shrimp in the 20 gallon still

 

[eco23]

eco23,

I've tested my tap water and it doesn't have any ammonia that I can tell. The 20g is just an attempt at a planted tank. I kind of wanted to put a couple of dwarf cichlids in it but I can't find them in my area. While I can special order fish at the lfs, they've called their supplier and weren't able to order the fish I was looking for. So plan B was to move what fish I could from the 55g to the 20g and make the 55g a cichlid tank.

Especially since there's no rush to stock it...instead of a fish tank, consider it a beneficial bacteria tank for now. Donate it, regrow it and stock it later

 

[Vallorn]

I'm fine with turning the 20g into a petri dish. The only thing that may be an issue is the filter on the 20g. It's a marineland biowheel. I haven't tested/measured it but I don't know if the biowheel would fit in the other filter. The other filter is an aquaclear 70.

By the way, thanks for all the help and advice. I do appreciate it.

 

[eco23]

I'm fine with turning the 20g into a petri dish. The only thing that may be an issue is the filter on the 20g. It's a marineland biowheel. I haven't tested/measured it but I don't know if the biowheel would fit in the other filter. The other filter is an aquaclear 70.

By the way, thanks for all the help and advice. I do appreciate it.

First, happy to help . Anyone willing to ask questions to help their fish deserve it . I assume there's filter cartridges in the 20? You can start by donating them....I'm not sure how much of a % is on the bio-wheel compared to the filters...but anything you can get will help. I assume if worse came to worse we could find a way to get the wheel into the other one...but it may not be necessary.

One (theoretical) thing to watch out for. I don't know what ppm of ammonia or what stage of your fishless cycle is at, but it's possible the media will have unbalanced amounts of beneficial bacteria. I'm guessing a potential could be that it has more ammo > no2, and the no2 > no3 is lacking. What theoretically could happen is the bacteria will chew through the ammonia, spit out nitrItes, and not have enough of that type of bacteria to instantly convert it into nitrAtes. Just something to watch out for and making sure you're closely watching your no2 once the new filter is in there.

 

[Galligak]

I'm fine with turning the 20g into a petri dish. The only thing that may be an issue is the filter on the 20g. It's a marineland biowheel. I haven't tested/measured it but I don't know if the biowheel would fit in the other filter. The other filter is an aquaclear 70.

By the way, thanks for all the help and advice. I do appreciate it.

No problem. As for the cycling matters listen to Eco, he knows a lot about cycling and will help you much more than I

 

[Vallorn]

That's pretty much exactly what's going on in the 20g right now. I've been using the fishless cycling guide that's in your signature so I've been dosing with enough ammonia to crank the tank up to 4ppm. The ammonia is gone by morning but I'm always left with way more nitrites than nitrates.

The no2 to no3 conversion is much slower but because the ammonia is being converted so quickly to no2, I am making the assumption that I'm nearing the end of the cycle. I'm somewhere after step K in the faq but I'm not sure where. The 50-60% water change in K turned into 3 back to back 50% water changes just so I could get a reading to see what's going on.

The 20g does have a carbon filter that I could transfer to the other tank once I'm ready. I just assumed the biowheel has more of the bacteria on it but I guess there's no way to really tell.

 

[jcolon]

Especially since there's no rush to stock it...instead of a fish tank, consider it a beneficial bacteria tank for now. Donate it, regrow it and stock it later

+1 with eco23 ... use the 20gal as the BB donation tank ... cycling the 55gal is the larger priority since it's stocked.

As for why your not showing No2, No3 ... how did you establish the bacteria? Did you use any bacteria in a bottle?

 

[Vallorn]

+1 with eco23 ... use the 20gal as the BB donation tank ... cycling the 55gal is the larger priority since it's stocked.

As for why your not showing No2, No3 ... how did you establish the bacteria? Did you use any bacteria in a bottle?

It slipped my mind but you know, when I set up the 55g it came with some tetra safe start packets that I used. In truth, the only thing I established was my lack of knowledge. When I bought the tank, I didn't know what cycling was.

My fiance had a 20g fish tank (the one I'm trying to repurpose). She basically took care of it but she didn't exactly know what she was doing either. One day she said, "Hey, I'd like a larger fish tank!" and that kind of sparked my interest for whatever reason. After we bought the tank I've been doing what research I could and stumbled across this forum.

 

[jcolon]

It slipped my mind but you know, when I set up the 55g it came with some tetra safe start packets that I used. In truth, the only thing I established was my lack of knowledge. When I bought the tank, I didn't know what cycling was.

My fiance had a 20g fish tank (the one I'm trying to repurpose). She basically took care of it but she didn't exactly know what she was doing either. One day she said, "Hey, I'd like a larger fish tank!" and that kind of sparked my interest for whatever reason. After we bought the tank I've been doing what research I could and stumbled across this forum.

Well it's commendable your looking to seek the necessary knowledge to have a healthy happy tank and are willing to ask for help.

Using the bacteria starter may be the reason why your cycle's basically stalled. Eco23 explained on a previous thread on how those bacteria are often unstable ...not true nitrifying bacteria that have a nasty habit of crashing on you. Real BB ... which nature provides free isn't prone to crashing like the ones in the bottle can. This is just a possible explanation .... I'm thinking Eco23 can give his expertise.

 

[eco23]

I wouldn't blame the SafeStart in this case. I've never heard of it causing problems...just being very hit or miss on working. It's basically every other brand that scares me.

Are you 100% certain you're doing the nitrAte test correctly? Shaking #2 for 30 seconds, entire tube for 1 minute? Letting it sit 5 minutes? Even if you have no3...there's still the ammo spike issue. You're not changing filter cartridges monthly or anything, are you?

 

[Vallorn]

I haven't changed any filter cartridges. I've only had the tank for a month and a half. I am 100% certain I'm doing the nitrate test correctly. I use a timer for each of the steps.

The only other thing I can think of was that I have used Maracyn in the tank before. After I stocked the tank, most of the fish ended up with a bad case of fin rot and one of my angelfish (he died) had dropsy. All of that happened a month ago.

I was under the impression that Maracyn didn't necessarily hurt the biological filter but that it would cause test kit readings to be off. Even if it did put a dent/killed/stalled whatever cycle I had going on at the time, I would assume the tank should have recovered since it was so long ago. I think the Maracyn treatment ended around July 6th or 7th.

 

[jetajockey]

maracyn kills gram positive bacteria, and autotrophic nitrifying bacteria happen to be gram positive as well, so it can definitely kill of the biofilter.

 

[eco23]

I haven't changed any filter cartridges. I've only had the tank for a month and a half. I am 100% certain I'm doing the nitrate test correctly. I use a timer for each of the steps.

The only other thing I can think of was that I have used Maracyn in the tank before. After I stocked the tank, most of the fish ended up with a bad case of fin rot and one of my angelfish (he died) had dropsy. All of that happened a month ago.

I was under the impression that Maracyn didn't necessarily hurt the biological filter but that it would cause test kit readings to be off. Even if it did put a dent/killed/stalled whatever cycle I had going on at the time, I would assume the tank should have recovered since it was so long ago. I think the Maracyn treatment ended around July 6th or 7th.

Macaryn does effect the bio-filter (regardless of what it says on the box)...I tested it out of curiosity before and it absolutely disrupts nitrification. Thing is though, it would have been removed by now with all the constant water changes and / or running carbon. So....I suppose it plausible that If it actually reset the clock...you've been doing a fish-in cycle for about a month...but I'd have expected to at least see no2 by now.

Luckily, the 20 gallon is you're savior. I'd move it all over, and keep a sharp eye on no2 since in principle it may spike (according to my theory).