Feeding Bacteria - Fishless Cycle

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TDWagner

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Jan 6, 2006
Messages
28
Location
Indiana
I'm SOOO close to finishing my fishless cycle. Ammonia levels drop from 3ppm to 0ppm in under 24 hours. Nitrite is falling as well and should zero out in the next couple of days.

The PROBLEM:
I'm going out of town for the weekend (leaving Friday morning and not coming home till Sunday night). I'm really worried about my bacteria colonies dying off while I'm gone and not dosing ammonia.

Any ideas?

I'm trying to figure out if it's worth trying to rig up some kind of slow drip system for the weekend (like a hospital IV), but I'm not sure how to pull it off and get the drip rate right.

Alternatively I could just triple-dose ammonia before I leave Friday morning and hope that sustains them for the weekend.

What do you think?
 
Drop in some fish food. Not alot of food. Lets say a teaspoon full. That will be plenty to feed your bactera. I dont think you even need to do that but if it will make you feel good than go ahead with a little food in the tank.
 
I agree. I would just do a normal dose of ammonia on Friday, and add just a little fish food, and then check as soon as you get home on Sunday. You should be fine. I was in the exact same circumstance when I was cycling, and it worked out just fine.
 
The only fish food I have right now is just generic flakes. The idea is to add some flakes so that they decompose all weekend slowly releasing ammonia.

I'm not sure how much will be enough though. About a teaspoon? Other suggestions?

Also, is there a way I can get it to settle in a tupperware container or something for easy cleanup when I get back? I don't really want it decomposing in my gravel, right?
 
I wouldn't worry about a weekend. Give it some ammonia on friday before leaving, and when you get back. It will be fine. BTW- you don't need 3 ppm ammonia daily to keep the bacteria alive and growing, 0.5 to 1 ppm daily will do. The more ammonia you add once you start to see nitrites, the higher the nitrite spike will be, the longer you have to wait for nitrites to go to zero. Many cut back on the ammonia dose after nitrites appear for this reason.

Not that the food trick won't work or will cause any harm, I am just not too sure it will generate any significat ammonia in the 24 hour period you are trying to cover.
 
fishfreek said:
Drop in some fish food. Not alot of food. Lets say a teaspoon full. That will be plenty to feed your bactera. I dont think you even need to do that but if it will make you feel good than go ahead with a little food in the tank.

As fishfreek already said, a teaspoon should be fine.
 
Well I'm back and everything looks ok thanks to the excellent advice I received.

I ended up SLIGHTLY overdosing ammonia (4ppm instead of 3ppm), and adding a pinch of flake food.

When I got home last night:
Ammonia - 0 PPM
Nitrite - 2 PPM

I dosed 3ppm ammonia last night, and it was down to about half that before I left for work this morning.

I think a few more days of waiting and the nitrite should come to zero....then maybe we can get some actual FISH in the AQUARIUM!!!! Exciting!

P.S. Definitely going to vac out those flakes as soon as I get out of work tonight.
 
TD,

Honestly I think your cycle is "finished". Your ammonia to nitrIte bacteria are extremely well established and from your numbers, your nitrIte to nitrAte are also well established. I would do one of two things:

1. Wait another couple of days until you get 3ppm of ammonia to nitrAte in 24hours, and then do a 90% PWC, and get all of your fish

2. Do a 90% PWC and get a couple fish, wait a day or two, get a couple more and so on.

I did very similar to you for my 20gallon, and was shocked that I didn't see any increase in nitrIte or ammonia at all during stocking. I added 6 tiger barbs on Saturday, Sunday morning no levels, Sunday I added 3 cory cats and 3 Oto's, Monday morning no levels, Monday afternoon I added 7 cherry barbs, and Tuesday morning no levels. This was all during normal feedings, and no water changes.

You did a great job, but I think your just building up more bacteria than will actually survive in the tank during normal ammonia production from the fish.

justin
 
7Enigma said:
TD,

Honestly I think your cycle is "finished". Your ammonia to nitrIte bacteria are extremely well established and from your numbers, your nitrIte to nitrAte are also well established. I would do one of two things:

1. Wait another couple of days until you get 3ppm of ammonia to nitrAte in 24hours, and then do a 90% PWC, and get all of your fish

2. Do a 90% PWC and get a couple fish, wait a day or two, get a couple more and so on.

I did very similar to you for my 20gallon, and was shocked that I didn't see any increase in nitrIte or ammonia at all during stocking. I added 6 tiger barbs on Saturday, Sunday morning no levels, Sunday I added 3 cory cats and 3 Oto's, Monday morning no levels, Monday afternoon I added 7 cherry barbs, and Tuesday morning no levels. This was all during normal feedings, and no water changes.

You did a great job, but I think your just building up more bacteria than will actually survive in the tank during normal ammonia production from the fish.

justin

Yeah, I believe I am VERY close. I did a big PWC over lunch break (70-80%) and then re-dosed ammonia. Hopefully after 24 hours I'll be at 0/0 ammonia/nitrite. After that, I'll test nitrAtes and make sure they're low enough to add livestock. I'm looking to add a full school of 7, wait a week or so, then add some bottom feeder cleaning crew types. "Multiple Tank Syndrome" is sure to set in not long after getting fully stocked!! :D

I started a thread covering my stocking ideas, so if you have any suggestions....
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=71531

Thanks!
Tim :D
 
[quote="TDWagner]I did a big PWC over lunch break (70-80%) and then re-dosed ammonia. Hopefully after 24 hours I'll be at 0/0 ammonia/nitrite. After that, I'll test nitrAtes and make sure they're low enough to add livestock. [/quote]

That's exactly how you should do it. Even thought it appears you may be done, you will know you are only if both ammonia and nitrite drop to 0 after 24 hours. If so, you are good to go. If not, you should be close.

I would also be cautious about your stocking rate. 7 fish at once may be a bit much if they are good sized fish. If they are small, you shouldn't have a problem. In any case, just watch your parameters closely during the first week or so after adding them. If parameters stay ideal, you are in the clear. If they start to rise, start changing water!
 
I wouldn't wait a week to finish with the bottom feeders personally. I'd wait a day or 2 and if you still do not have detectable levels, I'dd add the rest in.

Your bacteria are currently in the log growth phase. They are doubling every 12-24hours. You want to maintain that level of growth until the point at which all of your fish are added, and then they will die off to the point where they reach equilibrium with the bioload in the tank.


You don't want to lower your bacterial numbers being understocked, and then add more fish. While you probably won't get a small cycle, it's better to not take the chance. Again this is only if you have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrIte after 24-48hours with the addition of the school (that's why I did the 24hours 1st batch, 24hours 2nd batch, 24hours 3rd batch, it was just enough time to make sure no appreciable amounts of ammonia or nitrIte would be present, but not long enough for the beneficial bacteria to begin to die due to lack of food supply).
 
bosk1 said:
That's exactly how you should do it. Even thought it appears you may be done, you will know you are only if both ammonia and nitrite drop to 0 after 24 hours. If so, you are good to go. If not, you should be close.

I would also be cautious about your stocking rate. 7 fish at once may be a bit much if they are good sized fish. If they are small, you shouldn't have a problem. In any case, just watch your parameters closely during the first week or so after adding them. If parameters stay ideal, you are in the clear. If they start to rise, start changing water!

Yep, patiently waiting for that 0ppm nitrIte reading.

I'm looking to stock a Rainbowfish school, which get to be a decent size, but should only be 1-2 inches when purchased. I'll definitely be keeping a close eye on parameters.

7Enigma said:
I wouldn't wait a week to finish with the bottom feeders personally. I'd wait a day or 2 and if you still do not have detectable levels, I'dd add the rest in.

Your bacteria are currently in the log growth phase. They are doubling every 12-24hours. You want to maintain that level of growth until the point at which all of your fish are added, and then they will die off to the point where they reach equilibrium with the bioload in the tank.

You don't want to lower your bacterial numbers being understocked, and then add more fish. While you probably won't get a small cycle, it's better to not take the chance. Again this is only if you have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrIte after 24-48hours with the addition of the school (that's why I did the 24hours 1st batch, 24hours 2nd batch, 24hours 3rd batch, it was just enough time to make sure no appreciable amounts of ammonia or nitrIte would be present, but not long enough for the beneficial bacteria to begin to die due to lack of food supply).

My thinking was this:
- Fishless cycle to build up bacteria
- Add school of 7 and let bacteria equalize with that school
- Slowly add bottom feeders 1 or 2 per week, allowing bacteria to compensate after each addition
- Slowly build up another small school 1 or 2 at a time until fully stocked
- Fight the urge to overstock :wink:
- Succumb to Multiple Tank Syndrome :D

I've read that a fishless cycle will grow enough bacteria to support a FULL stock level, but I wanted to err on the side of caution by only half-stocking it, then slowly building up to full stock. Maybe it would be ok to add batches of fish every 24-36 hours till fully stocked, but I'm worried that I might overstock too many fish for the bacteria present and have to do frantic water changes till bacteria catches up.

I dunno, it's a tough dilemma to decide. I totally understand 7Enigma's reasoning of not letting the current bacteria die off, it's just hard to convince myself to be absolutely certain that the bacteria colonies are big enough.

EDIT: I'm pretty confident about my ammonia to nitrIte bacteria...they're well established and doing a great job. It's the nitrIte to nitrAte guys that I'm worried about since they're just now ALMOST big enough to consume 3ppm in 24 hours.
 
That 3ppm in 24hours is more than enough for your currently planned stock. Remember that population can virtually double in 24hours. I wouldn't do BOTH schools at the same time, but you could easily do the first school of 7 and the bottom feeders at the same time. They will not only be supported by the current bacteria level, but will also help with cleanup duty so you don't get a false sense of a cycle (due to overfeeding, etc).

The other thing is that they are less likely to be picked on in the tank (as my bottom feeders suffered from this), since they will be going into a "new" tank where territories have not yet been established. I could see a situation where your school of fish mark their territory, and don't welcome the bottom feeders. Again this is not necessarily going to happen, but in my case it did, and I wonder if I had introduced them at the same time (and not a day later), if my 2 guys would still be around...

Either way you do this (bosk1's or mine) you've done it the right way. I did it the overly cautious way, but then stocked quickly since I had no levels of ammonia or nitrIte between additions. In hindsight, I probably could have stocked all at once, and still have been fine, but I wanted to make absolutely sure no toxins built up.

Goodluck!
 
And I'm not saying 7Enigma is wrong, either. If you read his 5000-page thread ;), he was very cautious, and monitored things closely before, during, and after adding fish. It would make me nervious stocking that quickly, but if you are careful and really keep an eye on things, I suppose it can work.
 
I agree that if the bacteria can consume 3 ppm of ammonia in 24 hours, that is more than enough. When i first added fish, the bacteria were only consuming 1 ppm in 24 hours, and they did fine with 6 fish, so i think you should be fine. Congrats on the completed (well, almost) fishless cycle!
 

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