Hola! (And HELP!!! with fishless cycle:)

[mimmim7]

Hi, everybody! I'm new on the forum, and REALLY need some help deciding whether I can salvage the fishless cycle I'm doing or if I need to start over I hurt my back pretty bad a few months ago and decided that since I'm going to be spending more time at home, I might as well get my old tank set up again to have some fishy friends to hang around with me To summarize, I'm on day 17 of a fishless cycle (my first attempt at it-my last tankkeeping was about 10 years ago). I spent a good month online researching fish and all about cycling, and this turned out to be one of my favorite sites!
I'm pretty sure that I WAY overdosed on ammonia at some point last week and didn't realize it and killed off all my bacteria. Here are my stats on what's happened so far:
Set-up: 5 gallon hex-front, undergravel filter, 2 airstones off small pump, 15 or 20 watt heater, temp 83 degrees (though I uped it 2 days ago to 85), aquarium gravel. I am using Jungle's Start Right for my dechlor. I also got some Hagen's Cycle (I know it's a longshot, but I figured it couldn't hurt).
I think a lot of my problems came from using the quick-dip testers and not being able to read them, and I was FINALLY able to get the API master kit this weekend (day 15 of cycle), and it confirmed my suspicions of high ammonia.
Diary of cycle so far:
Checked baselines of tap water after adding antichlor and letting it stand (used both types of tests): Ph 8.4, Alkalinity 40-80, Total Hardness 300+, Nitrite between .5 and 2 ppm (API said .5, and I trust that more), Nitrate 10 ppm, Ammonia trace.
Day 1: Dosed ammonia (household, not pure, no surfactants or additives) up to 5-6 ppm. Dosed Hagen's Cycle. Nothing else til checked again on day 5.
Day 5: ammonia down to .25 (according to dipstick). Nitrite up to 3 (couldn't tell if higher than baseline on stick test). Nitrate 0-20 ppm. Dosed ammonia backed to 5-6 ppm. But again, not sure if put a LOT more in than that, because of problems reading test stick. Water now nice and cloudy white!
Day 7: Ammonia low again, so dosed back to 4 ppm. Nitrites 3-5, Nitrates 0-20 still. Added 1/2 of a Ph buffer tablet-lowered ph to 7.8 and is holding there. Dosed HAgen's Cycle again.
Day 8: Ammonia down again, and nitrites definitely 3, so dosed to 2-3 ppm. But there were still no nitrates, so I started to get suspicious ammonia dosing/testing not correct. Alkalinity started to read on the stick at 120 and has stayed that way.
Day 11: Ammonia still at 3-5, nitrites 3-5. Nitrates started showing up on the SALTWATER scale as a perfect 20, but just over 0 on the freshwater scale!
Day 12: Ammonia still at 3 ppm, nitrites now 1-3, and nitrate definitley showing as saltwater 2-40 ppm. Water still cloudy white, but now I knew something was definitely up. Everything stayed the same through day 14.
Day 14: Readings still the same, but was able to get squeezings from friend's filter to add to tank water and dosed with cycle again.
Day 15: Got API test kit!!! Ph still at 7.8, Ammonia 4-8 ppm (not 2-3 like I thought, so had been high all previous week), nitrite 1, nitrate 10 (both same as tap water).
Day 16: Ammonia 4ppm still, so did 25% water change. nitrites and nitrates the same.
Day 17 (today): Ammonia 2-3ppm, nitrite 1.

So really, is there any way I can save this cycle, or should I just start over??? I'd appreciate any advice, and thanks so much for reading all that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jen

 

[laxpatrick]

When your ammonia starts dropping, you'll know at least the first half of the bacteria are cooking. Until the nitrites consistently drop down, you won't be in the home stretch...

 

[mimmim7]

Thanks for the quick reply, laxpatrick!
I was wondering if at this point I might need to start over because my ammonia was dropping/nitrites up on a daily basis after day 5 and then suddenly stopped. Or do you think the ammonia drop/nitrite change might start by itself again?
Thanks again for the help!

 

[missileman]

The secret is to figure out how much amonia it takes at the start to get to your baseline. I use 3ppm. when it starts to go down never attempt to keep it at base line, only add the amount you did at first.
Keep in mind that the bacteria is trying to consume that amonia so it should be getting lower anyway.
For example, it took 1/2 teaspoon to get my 75 gallon up, when I started getting nitrites and amonia I would only add 1/2 teaspoon daily no matter what the amonia reading was, and I divided that up to 1/4 tsp in the morning and 1/4 tsp in the evening so the bacteria had a steady source.
I think if you re-seed the tank you should be able to continue with the current cycle. Sounds like you were getting close.

 

[SWerner13]

I was in the same boat as you, sorta. My nitrites were off the charts and things were starting to slow and mess up. All your good bacteria you have developed is still there just do some water changes and get it to whatever readings you looking for. Missileman hands out some good advice. You may be doing this I didn't read your whole essay, but lower the water level a bit, get some airation going on. Keep you temp up to 85 or so, I think I read your doing that. And I have read that adding a very small amount of fish flakes can help give your bacteria some trace nutrients. And as far as the magic cycle stuff, most people have very limited success with anything other than fresh, refrigerated bio-spira.

 

[mimmim7]

Thanks, guys! I'll try another water change and see if I can get some more filter stuff from my friend. I'll try the fish food too. Does anybody have recommendations on whether I should keep the light on or off?
Yeah, the Cycle stuff is definitely not magical, but I figured, meh, if it means I might get fish a day sooner....

 

[asudavew]

Light off.
Keeps algae from growing.

 

[SWerner13]

Yeah, the Cycle stuff is definitely not magical, but I figured, meh, if it means I might get fish a day sooner.

I did the same thing but it turns out all the people on here aren't lying to ya! I tried cycle and and one other one I can't remember. Never really did a thing for me. I would like to try Bio-Spira sometime though it has a great reputation.

 

[mimmim7]

Good-I've been keeping the lights off!
I really wanted to try bio-spira too, but couldn't find any (in South Dakota, go figure but then i read a post about a week ago, i'll try to think of where I saw it, that said they had stopped making it a few months ago and that the inventor was starting his own line and it was going to be called Dr. Tim's One and Only. I don't remember if the posting mentioned where or when it was going to be available, but I'll look for the info again.
I kinda wonder if all the additives but bio-spira are more like psychological therapy for the fishkeeper than anything If they advertised it that way, I'd feel better about the $8 and prob still would have bought it!

 

[mimmim7]

Is my cycle moving again?

Ammonia is down to 1 ppm! Yea! Nitrites seem to be still at 1 ppm, but ammonia was definitely down, so I seem to be moving again, right?, or is it just wishful thinking? (ps, just checked nitrates and they are up too!!!)

Just to doublecheck, should I add the ammount of ammonia that gets me to 2 ppm daily, no matter how high it gets again, or should i go easy and try to keep it at 2 ppm for a while?

In case anybody's interested, I found the website that lists the dealers and online stores that sell the new bio-spira, One and Only-- it's drtimsaquatics.com and the site said the new stuff can be unrefridgerated for 6 mths.

Has anybody tried the new stuff yet?

 

[laxpatrick]

As long as you don't overdo it with the ammonia, you should be ok with a minimal dose. You've got the bacteria you need to break down the ammonia - you want to keep them alive until the nitrite drops and you add fish...

 

[mimmim7]

will do! thanks so much for all the help!