How is my tank? - Page 2 - Aquarium Advice

kimo · 06-09-2008, 02:44 PM

Use AmQuel+ for a water conditioner. It will help keep your ammonia and nitrites in check while the tank cycles. Large water changes only prolongs the time it takes to cycle.

Capella · 06-09-2008, 09:00 PM

Update: The fish are dying in droves. I no longer have to wonder where the Clowns are now. We buried them. I have three angel's and one molie left alive. Seven deaths today. Nine total over the weekend.

Kimo - the guy at our local "real" fish store (not a chain store) said the same thing. Leave the darn water changes alone and don't clean any more gravel. I was advised to use the Prime that I have following the crisis instructions: five times the normal level and then StressZyme per the instructions. Next, feed just a very little. There is a real possiblity we were over feeding. At this point I feel like there is nothing to loose just following those instructions and see what happens. The water changes just seemed to be adding to the problem or we just didn't catch the problem in time - until the first fish died.

I suppose the "change the water" folks can freely fire at will, but I do wish to stress that I take 100% responsibility for everything that has gone wrong - from thinking the tank was cycled based on strip test and spiraling down from there.....huge sigh.

Debbie

rich311k · 06-09-2008, 09:42 PM

I am sorry to hear that. I guess that nitrite number was real one. Water changes are a 100% necessity when cycling with fish. Their well being is far more important than a quicker cycle.

Now back to the tank. What is left? What are the numbers? You need to keep going you don't want to quit now. You will remember this and become a great fish keeper. We all started in the same place.

Capella · 06-09-2008, 10:17 PM

Rich,

Thank you for your kindess. I know this kind of post has to be utterly frustrating considering the magnitude of the wealth of information here.

I have one 55 gallon tank.
Three angel fish
One orange mollie that looks OK.
One that seems to be spending way too much time near the bottom.
One snail of two that I have accounted for.

I'm not quitting. A 50% water change was done about 1pm today by my husband. I'm just not going to fool with the water any more for the next few days. Try what the fish guy at the store did to save his friends 75 gallon tank and the few left in it. I've been changing out water like a mad person all weekend long, then picking out the bodies. I guess I'm feeling overwhelmed and mad at myself right now.

I appreciate you very much,

Debbie

mom2reds · 06-10-2008, 12:05 AM

DEBBIE WE ALL CAN FEEL YOUR FUSTRATION BECAUSE WE HAVE ALL BEEN THERE, YOU ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING NOW AND THAT IS WHATS MATTERS. i WOULD NOT ADD ANYTHING TO YOUR TANK CHEMICAL WISE OTHER THAN DECHLORINATOR. LISTEN TO THE ADVISE ON HERE FROM THE EXPERTS AND THEY WILL WALK YOU THROUGH YOUR CYCLE. THE THING THAT YOU WELL NEED MOST IS PATIENCE.
ALSO IF YOU DO NOT ALREADY HAVE ONE I WOULD SUGGEST GETTING A PYTHON FOR WATER CHANGES IT MAKES LIFE A LOT NICER.

GOOD LUCK AND REMEMBER THAT WE ARE HERE FOR YOU.

kimo · 06-10-2008, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capella

Update: The fish are dying in droves. I no longer have to wonder where the Clowns are now. We buried them. I have three angel's and one molie left alive. Seven deaths today. Nine total over the weekend.

Kimo - the guy at our local "real" fish store (not a chain store) said the same thing. Leave the darn water changes alone and don't clean any more gravel. I was advised to use the Prime that I have following the crisis instructions: five times the normal level and then StressZyme per the instructions. Next, feed just a very little. There is a real possiblity we were over feeding. At this point I feel like there is nothing to loose just following those instructions and see what happens. The water changes just seemed to be adding to the problem or we just didn't catch the problem in time - until the first fish died.

I suppose the "change the water" folks can freely fire at will, but I do wish to stress that I take 100% responsibility for everything that has gone wrong - from thinking the tank was cycled based on strip test and spiraling down from there.....huge sigh.

Debbie

Use AmQuel+ instead of the Prime @ 5x. Just double the dose and you should be good to go. AmQuel treats the chlorine, chloramine AND excess ammonia, nitrites, nitrates. For a cycling tank AmQuel will mess up you test results... don't bother testing until the tank has fully established. Its the only thing I use. New, freshly treated water has a nasty habit of "hatching" any of the undesirables that are laying dormant in the gravel (its like when a spring flood comes), notably ICH, velvet or flukes.
Water changes just upset the tank even more when it is still trying to get established, balanced and cycled. I don't know the size of your tank but it seems like it was possibly overstocked, overfed, or both.

Big thing is to not get worried... EVERY aquarist has gone through this when first stating out. Just have patience.... it will work itself out. Sorry about the loss of your fish though.

pat8you · 06-10-2008, 03:50 AM

Sorry to hear about all your fish. Thats a hard thing to deal with. Hope it goes better for you.

Capella · 06-10-2008, 08:06 AM

Tess, Pat8, Kimo and all. Thank you so much for the support. The remaining fish made it through the night, but don't know what I'll come home to after work. The thought occured to me that perhaps I was doing the water changes wrong?? Should I have just been pulling water off the top, rather than rooting around in the gravel? I did buy the Python and yes, it's a life saver. The bucket and garden hose up the stairs method got old in a fast hurry.

It's 5:45am here. The ammonia this morning is .25, the nitrite dropped to 5.0 (still in a serious danger zone but not the 10 it was. It's difficult to have the heart and soul of a rescuer and feel like the instrument of death. I've been very careful not mention my husband or assign any blame his direction, but he really wanted my new tank to have some birthday fish in it so as soon as we had good test strips for a few days, I came home to find fish in the tank. Then I componded the problem by going ahead and adding the Angels, which is what I was striving for all along. An Angel tank. The death watch for June 10th begins...

Debbie

CaptainAhab · 06-10-2008, 08:36 AM

'Use AmQuel+ instead of the Prime @ 5x. Just double the dose and you should be good to go. AmQuel treats the chlorine, chloramine AND excess ammonia, nitrites, nitrates.'

I've casually watched this thread from the SW corner and been concerned by some of the advice. What I can't do is let someone bash and miscommunicate what is, in my opinion, the best product on the market. That being Prime. Prime removes Chlorine, Chloramine and Ammonia along with detoxifying nitrate and nitrate. It is in many circles regarded as the best product on the market; bar none.
One person yesterday advises this person to use Amquel, today tells them it will screw up their test results.

My advice, take it or leave it, is to start with and continue large multiple water changes to keep the toxicity down. As you continue to test DAILY (or more often) watch for the cycle to start to mature, then lessen the water changes so the cycle can pick up steam. Slowly moving back to less and less water changes. Use PRIME or any other product that you prefer to SPOT TREAT high results. The products will help you deal with spikes but use water changes to keep things in line.

Go back to your LFS and BEG AND PLEAD for any used filter material to help get you over the hump. Buy it if you have to. Shove it in your filter or at this point just throw it in the tank.

If your fish don't make it then while it's sad hopefully you've gathered some knowledge that will help you through the next one. Three of them being: 1) Fishless cycle 2) The cycle is what it is. There are very specific ways to determine where you are in it and when it is over. 3) Chemicals (except for dechlor) will generally come back to bite you so stay away from them.

Capella · 06-10-2008, 08:51 AM

Captain, thank you for sharing your thoughts. Prime is the product I've always used. I did add the other stuff last night. Can you baby step me. How much water to pull today? And just off the top? I have no problem begging and groveling - I'll hit this guy on my way home from work today. Actually, I'm some what stuck. I have to go to work. If it wasn't fiscal year end, I might could stay home and watch it all day long - but I just can't.

06-10-2008, 12:05 AM	#15
mom2reds Aquarium Advice FINatic Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lubbock texas Posts: 765 Images: 14	DEBBIE WE ALL CAN FEEL YOUR FUSTRATION BECAUSE WE HAVE ALL BEEN THERE, YOU ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING NOW AND THAT IS WHATS MATTERS. i WOULD NOT ADD ANYTHING TO YOUR TANK CHEMICAL WISE OTHER THAN DECHLORINATOR. LISTEN TO THE ADVISE ON HERE FROM THE EXPERTS AND THEY WILL WALK YOU THROUGH YOUR CYCLE. THE THING THAT YOU WELL NEED MOST IS PATIENCE. ALSO IF YOU DO NOT ALREADY HAVE ONE I WOULD SUGGEST GETTING A PYTHON FOR WATER CHANGES IT MAKES LIFE A LOT NICER. GOOD LUCK AND REMEMBER THAT WE ARE HERE FOR YOU. __________________ Tess 100 gal. freshwater planted community tank VOTE FOR AA TODAY

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06-09-2008, 02:44 PM	#11
kimo Aquarium Advice Freak Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Arlington TX Posts: 221	Use AmQuel+ for a water conditioner. It will help keep your ammonia and nitrites in check while the tank cycles. Large water changes only prolongs the time it takes to cycle.

06-09-2008, 09:00 PM	#12
Capella Aquarium Advice Apprentice Join Date: May 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 38	Update: The fish are dying in droves. I no longer have to wonder where the Clowns are now. We buried them. I have three angel's and one molie left alive. Seven deaths today. Nine total over the weekend. Kimo - the guy at our local "real" fish store (not a chain store) said the same thing. Leave the darn water changes alone and don't clean any more gravel. I was advised to use the Prime that I have following the crisis instructions: five times the normal level and then StressZyme per the instructions. Next, feed just a very little. There is a real possiblity we were over feeding. At this point I feel like there is nothing to loose just following those instructions and see what happens. The water changes just seemed to be adding to the problem or we just didn't catch the problem in time - until the first fish died. I suppose the "change the water" folks can freely fire at will, but I do wish to stress that I take 100% responsibility for everything that has gone wrong - from thinking the tank was cycled based on strip test and spiraling down from there.....huge sigh. Debbie

06-09-2008, 09:42 PM	#13
rich311k Aquarium Advice Addict Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 8,972 Images: 35	I am sorry to hear that. I guess that nitrite number was real one. Water changes are a 100% necessity when cycling with fish. Their well being is far more important than a quicker cycle. Now back to the tank. What is left? What are the numbers? You need to keep going you don't want to quit now. You will remember this and become a great fish keeper. We all started in the same place.

06-09-2008, 10:17 PM	#14
Capella Aquarium Advice Apprentice Join Date: May 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 38	Rich, Thank you for your kindess. I know this kind of post has to be utterly frustrating considering the magnitude of the wealth of information here. I have one 55 gallon tank. Three angel fish One orange mollie that looks OK. One that seems to be spending way too much time near the bottom. One snail of two that I have accounted for. I'm not quitting. A 50% water change was done about 1pm today by my husband. I'm just not going to fool with the water any more for the next few days. Try what the fish guy at the store did to save his friends 75 gallon tank and the few left in it. I've been changing out water like a mad person all weekend long, then picking out the bodies. I guess I'm feeling overwhelmed and mad at myself right now. I appreciate you very much, Debbie

06-10-2008, 08:06 AM	#18
Capella Aquarium Advice Apprentice Join Date: May 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 38	Tess, Pat8, Kimo and all. Thank you so much for the support. The remaining fish made it through the night, but don't know what I'll come home to after work. The thought occured to me that perhaps I was doing the water changes wrong?? Should I have just been pulling water off the top, rather than rooting around in the gravel? I did buy the Python and yes, it's a life saver. The bucket and garden hose up the stairs method got old in a fast hurry. It's 5:45am here. The ammonia this morning is .25, the nitrite dropped to 5.0 (still in a serious danger zone but not the 10 it was. It's difficult to have the heart and soul of a rescuer and feel like the instrument of death. I've been very careful not mention my husband or assign any blame his direction, but he really wanted my new tank to have some birthday fish in it so as soon as we had good test strips for a few days, I came home to find fish in the tank. Then I componded the problem by going ahead and adding the Angels, which is what I was striving for all along. An Angel tank. The death watch for June 10th begins... Debbie

06-10-2008, 08:36 AM	#19
CaptainAhab Aquarium Advice Freak Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Southern NJ/Philadelphia Posts: 409	'Use AmQuel+ instead of the Prime @ 5x. Just double the dose and you should be good to go. AmQuel treats the chlorine, chloramine AND excess ammonia, nitrites, nitrates.' I've casually watched this thread from the SW corner and been concerned by some of the advice. What I can't do is let someone bash and miscommunicate what is, in my opinion, the best product on the market. That being Prime. Prime removes Chlorine, Chloramine and Ammonia along with detoxifying nitrate and nitrate. It is in many circles regarded as the best product on the market; bar none. One person yesterday advises this person to use Amquel, today tells them it will screw up their test results. My advice, take it or leave it, is to start with and continue large multiple water changes to keep the toxicity down. As you continue to test DAILY (or more often) watch for the cycle to start to mature, then lessen the water changes so the cycle can pick up steam. Slowly moving back to less and less water changes. Use PRIME or any other product that you prefer to SPOT TREAT high results. The products will help you deal with spikes but use water changes to keep things in line. Go back to your LFS and BEG AND PLEAD for any used filter material to help get you over the hump. Buy it if you have to. Shove it in your filter or at this point just throw it in the tank. If your fish don't make it then while it's sad hopefully you've gathered some knowledge that will help you through the next one. Three of them being: 1) Fishless cycle 2) The cycle is what it is. There are very specific ways to determine where you are in it and when it is over. 3) Chemicals (except for dechlor) will generally come back to bite you so stay away from them.

06-10-2008, 08:51 AM	#20
Capella Aquarium Advice Apprentice Join Date: May 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 38	Captain, thank you for sharing your thoughts. Prime is the product I've always used. I did add the other stuff last night. Can you baby step me. How much water to pull today? And just off the top? I have no problem begging and groveling - I'll hit this guy on my way home from work today. Actually, I'm some what stuck. I have to go to work. If it wasn't fiscal year end, I might could stay home and watch it all day long - but I just can't.