new here...please help!

[chrisandjess]

hi, joining because my tank is in trouble. i started a 55g tank without knowing anything. i have about 20 cichlids, 3 pleco's, and a blue lobster. the tank has ammonia levels through the roof, but nitrite and nitrate levels are 0... how do i kick start the bio filter? oh yeah, and the ph is about 8.0 or higher. dont know for sure, the tester only goes that high. the tank has been goin for about 3.5 weeks. thanks for any help.

 

[daileene]

you are in the cycle process still, but unfortunately you already have residents and the high levels of ammonia and nitrite can be detrimental to them...

if you check the levels and the ammonia and nitrite are over 0.25ppm, do water changes as soon as you can. Do few water changes until it will go down to 0.25ppm. Having to cycle with fish will take a lot of effort coz you don't want the residents to get affected with the process. So PWC is so VITAL...

 

[daileene]

you already kick started the filter by all the bioload from your fishes and from the uneaten excess fish food. those become ammonia, and high level of them is not good.

pH is not to so much of an important right now coz you are still cycling.

Please read this link, it will help you tremendoulsly:

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...-but-i-already-have-fish-what-now-116287.html

Please keep us updated...

 

[WendiDell]

hi, joining because my tank is in trouble. i started a 55g tank without knowing anything. i have about 20 cichlids, 3 pleco's, and a blue lobster. the tank has ammonia levels through the roof, but nitrite and nitrate levels are 0... how do i kick start the bio filter? oh yeah, and the ph is about 8.0 or higher. dont know for sure, the tester only goes that high. the tank has been goin for about 3.5 weeks. thanks for any help.

WOW!!! Talk about to much to soon. By themselves the 20 unknown types of Cichlids are to much for the 55g tank
I'm afraid to ask about the, 3, what kind of, Plecos? Some of them can get quite large and if you have 3 of them. You basically need 155g tank.
That lovely looking Blue Lobster is very aggressive and so are the unknown Cichlids.
If you can take some of those fish back to the FS, you should. For your sake as well as the fishes. With all you have you'll start to loose fish soon,
and it will be traumatic. I can tell by your plea, you know your in trouble.
You can do a cycle with fish, but not that many fish. Absolute max. 15 Cichlids as long as they all come from the same lake, one Pleco and the Blue Lobster needs his own tank.
Once you get your stock down to an almost manageable level you can can start to cycle your tank.
What are you using to test your water with? If It isn't an API Liquid Master Kit, it should be. Strips area waste of time and money and if you get the 5-1 that most people make the mistake of getting, they don't even test for ammonia.
So get the right test kit, cut back on your stock and be prepared to test and change water (PWC) every day, sometimes twice a day for the 2 months. Anything less and you'll kill your fish. It's going to take a ton of commitment, I know because I did it with my first 55g tank.
You will need to test every 12 hours just to find out what your ammonia levels are. If your Ammonia is .25ppm or over you need to do a water change (PWC). How much water depends on the amount of ammonia. If it says .50ppm then do a 50% PWC, if the ammonia says .25ppm then it's a 25% PWC and so on. If it goes above 1.0ppm, which it will, then you need to do back to back PWC. As in 2 75% PWC.
Get yourself a very big bottle of Prime as a dechlorinator for your PWC. And for the fish get a very big bottle of Stress coat with Aloe or the one I like the best is BigAls Water Conditioner at www.bigalsonline.com. It is a great stress coat and with the ammonia problem and all the PWC over the next few months, it will stress out both you and your fish. Before I forget make sure you have a water changer. If you try to do this with buckets, it will break you. There are basically 2 water changers, the Python and the Aqueon Water Changer. They do the same thing, hooks onto your sink and sucks out the bad water and puts in the clean water, makes it SO MUCH EASIER.
I hope I didn't miss anything, I know it's a lot to take in. But I promise it can be done.
The only other alternative is to get rid of all your fish and start over with cycling your tank before you add any fish at all.
I don't type, my fingers hurt. Lots and Lots of luck to you.
Oh and please smack the fish store person that sold you all those fish at once, he/she just turned the next few month of your life into a living, you know.

 

[melosu58]

Welcome to AA. Moving this to the FW getting started forum. More people will see it there.

 

[chrisandjess]

Thanks wendi. well said. You gave me very good advice. Especially about the water changer. I've been doing it with buckets, and its not fun at all... Just one question tho... how do you condition the water? Arent you suppoosed to do that before the water goes into the tank?

 

[eco23]

Thanks wendi. well said. You gave me very good advice. Especially about the water changer. I've been doing it with buckets, and its not fun at all... Just one question tho... how do you condition the water? Arent you suppoosed to do that before the water goes into the tank?

You can add your Prime (it's the brand virtually everybody uses) directly to the tank as you're adding the tap water. Use a dose that is for the total gallons of the tank, not just the water you're replacing.

It's a good idea to do this away from the filter intake so you're not immediately circulating the tap water before the Prime has a chance to detoxify it.

 

[eco23]

Also if I remember correctly you can use up to 5x the normal dose of Prime in an emergency situation. I wouldn't jump to that point yet, but don't be afraid to add a little extra during all the pwc's you've got in your near future. Wendi's advice is perfect and you've got to get most, and preferably all of those fish out of there immediately. See if you can return the fish to the store or if you have a friend with a large established tank that can stay with them for a while.

Don't beat yourself up about what you did, but I agree you should probably beat up the guy at the fish store. You're just learning from this experience and this site is a fantastic resource. Even the most experienced hobbyists still learn things they didn't know every day on this forum.

 

[WendiDell]

Thanks wendi. well said. You gave me very good advice. Especially about the water changer. I've been doing it with buckets, and its not fun at all... Just one question tho... how do you condition the water? Arent you suppoosed to do that before the water goes into the tank?

What eco23 said is the way to do it. After you remove the water from the tank, add a cupful of the Prime that eco and I mentioned. It's great stuff. Let it mix a bit then set your faucet temp to match your tank temp. More than a degree or two will stress out the fish and can cause a parasitic outbreak and kill every fish you have.
Then when it's almost full add the BigAls water conditioner to reduce the stress all of this does to your fish.
But none of this will work if you don't cut down (and fast) on the amount of fish you have.
eco is correct in saying a fishless cycle is easier and safer, but it can be done with done with the 15 Cichlids. As long as you can devote the time to all those PWC. Every once in a while you'll get lucky and you'll wake up in the morning and the ammonia will be 0 and the Nitrites will be 0 and you can go back to sleep for a couple hours, but be sure and check that evening because the ammonia or Nitrites will be back up again.
That is until you start to have consistent Nitrate levels around 20ppm. After that you can check twice a week, Do 20% PWC and then you'll really love this hobby and all your fish.
This part is really hard, I'm not going to tell you it's not. It's just hard work and feeling as if there is no end in sight.
But when you see those first pos. Nitrate readings, it's a party. And the work load becomes 0 by comparison and you just love your fish.
One other thing that may help speed this up for you.
Do you know anyone with a big established aquarium? If you do, you can use some of their filter media (insides) to seed your tank with Nitrates. It's faster, but the work is the same, just not for as long.

 

[eco23]

Wendi has a really good point about adding seeding material. Think of your aquarium as an emergency situation, and the seed material is the fireman and paramedics. If you can get enough (it'd take a lot for a 55 gallon with that many fish), it can basically make your tank behave like it's cycled. If it was me, I'd go to every lfs near me and beg, plead and steal (well, maybe don't steal) for anything they can give you. Used filter media, gravel from an established tank, rocks, plants... Basically everything. Like I said, it'd take a lot of material to instantly fix the problem, but anything you can get will help immensely. Even a single used filter would help the process along much faster.

*after reading this back I just want to make sure it's clear that no matter what you add, the pwc's, constant monitoring, etc... are all still necessary to resolve the issue. The best course of action would be to go back to where you got the fish and talk to the manager. See if you can return the fish since their employee acted extremely inappropriately by selling you all those fish with no questions asked. The employee might not care, but there's many of us on this site that actually value fish as living things and hate to see them tortured because an ignorant, untrained employee didnt care to ask a couple questions that he should have been trained to ask.

 

[WendiDell]

There is one question I didn't ask you, that every one on AA should know.
Where did you go to buy your tank? Who was it that was so irresponsible to do such a horrendous thing to you and those fish?
As far as I'm concerned it borders on the criminal to sell you all those fish. Whether from ignorance or greed, it's wrong.
LFS, especially chains sell fish and tanks together all the time. But, the amount of fish that they sold you is more than I've ever heard. It's grossly negligent on their part, not yours.
You have an entire world of fish keepers behind you here on AA that will back you up if you want to speak to the manager about how badly you were taken advantage of. Don't let them talk you into buying anything to help you cycle your tank. It's a scam all those Nitrifying things are just a waste of money that FS sell to newbies
Also with getting filter media from FS. Make sure that their tanks are clean and the fish well cared for and not over stocked. You don't want to accidentally bring home a disease from another tank.

 

[chrisandjess]

As you might have guessed.....Petco is the place. I've been doing alot of water changes lately, and I have given away 4 cichlids. I know i need to decrease the amount of fish more, but its not too easy. I plan on getting rid of 5 more cichlids and 1 pleco. Anyway, my ammonia levels are starting to drop. Down to about 1.5 or 2, they were somewhere between 6 to 8. Still no nitrate or nitrite reading yet. Im getting sick of daily water changes. But I will continue to do so.
Thanks for all the help.

P.S. i meant partial water changes.....60%

 

[eco23]

As you might have guessed.....Petco is the place. I've been doing alot of water changes lately, and I have given away 4 cichlids. I know i need to decrease the amount of fish more, but its not too easy. I plan on getting rid of 5 more cichlids and 1 pleco. Anyway, my ammonia levels are starting to drop. Down to about 1.5 or 2, they were somewhere between 6 to 8. Still no nitrate or nitrite reading yet. Im getting sick of daily water changes. But I will continue to do so.
Thanks for all the help.

P.S. i meant partial water changes.....60%

Those Pythons make water changes a breeze. I can do a 50% pwc on my 48 gallon in a little over 5 minutes, and you basically just stand there, you don't have to lift anything. I bought one on sale online last week for $27. I don't know AA's policy on advertising, so PM me if you want and I can give you the name of the website.

 

[WendiDell]

As you might have guessed.....Petco is the place. I've been doing alot of water changes lately, and I have given away 4 cichlids. I know i need to decrease the amount of fish more, but its not too easy. I plan on getting rid of 5 more cichlids and 1 pleco. Anyway, my ammonia levels are starting to drop. Down to about 1.5 or 2, they were somewhere between 6 to 8. Still no nitrate or nitrite reading yet. Im getting sick of daily water changes. But I will continue to do so.
Thanks for all the help.

P.S. i meant partial water changes.....60%

Not to be a nag. but you really need to get that Ammonia below .25ppm. the 1,5 to 2.0 seems great after the 6-8 but it's still very toxic to the fish and can burn and scar their gills.
It will take a couple months of daily PWC and some times 2 times a day to get any Nitrate readings.
Just keep testing and doing PWC. I know it's not fun and you'd like to kill the moron at petco. I would and it didn't even happen to me.
As you can guess I'm not surprised that it was petco. You really should speak to the manager and get them to take back their fish.
Then never go there again. Not always but the mom and pop places are generally better.
But really, go kick some petco ... for the fish and yourself.

 

[eco23]

Some of these examples I've been reading about recently really are borderline criminal. I guess animal cruelty laws don't apply to fish? What's sad is that the same things are happening to puppies and every other type of pets where people try to make $ without thinking twice of where the animal is going and what it's quality of life will be.

 

[WendiDell]

Some of these examples I've been reading about recently really are borderline criminal. I guess animal cruelty laws don't apply to fish? What's sad is that the same things are happening to puppies and every other type of pets where people try to make $ without thinking twice of where the animal is going and what it's quality of life will be.

I completely agree with you about it being criminal. What to many chain PS do. Although chrisandjess' situation is the worst I've read about a PS being so greedy and selling such a outrageous amount of fish for a 55g tank. They always sell the fish at the same time, even though the tank should cycle. But I've never read about so many of fish at once, for a tank that size.
I really hope they go back and really force petco to take responsibility for at least the excess fish, if not all.
If I were near them I'd go with and help. In fact I'd relish sinking my indignant teeth into that managers backside, for what they've done. Give them the verbalthey deserve.

 

[Josh]

Not to be a nag. but you really need to get that Ammonia below .25ppm. the 1,5 to 2.0 seems great after the 6-8 but it's still very toxic to the fish and can burn and scar their gills.

If his tank is still cycling getting ammonia below .25 by pwc alone is pretty much impossible. You couldn't do water changes fast enough to keep levels that low with that much overstocking. Not to mention the amount of water changes would likely stress and harm the fish just as much, if not more than the elevated ammonia.

By no means am I saying don't do water changes. I would be doing one in the morning and one at night. But there is such a thing as over doing it. Getting below .25 ppm in a tank with no nitrifying bacteria is an impossible expectation.

 

[Deckape]

I was in Petco up where I work one day at lunch just looking at fish. There was a family with a 3 or 4 year old girl. They had a buggy with a 10 gallon tank and all the accessories. They we're looking at goldfish. They called the worker over and showed him which fish they wanted. He looked at the buggy and told them he couldn't and wouldn't sell them any fish. I overheard him explain the nitrogen cycle and how to do a fishless cycle. I didn't say a word but just smiled and went back to work ( not at Petco). Not all of them are bad. This guy knew his job.

Good luck and I hope you find a resolution for a place to keep your fish or credit so you can get some of them back after you finish cycling. Keep us informed so we may learn from this experience. Keep doing those water changes.

 

[WendiDell]

If his tank is still cycling getting ammonia below .25 by pwc alone is pretty much impossible. You couldn't do water changes fast enough to keep levels that low with that much overstocking. Not to mention the amount of water changes would likely stress and harm the fish just as much, if not more than the elevated ammonia.

By no means am I saying don't do water changes. I would be doing one in the morning and one at night. But there is such a thing as over doing it. Getting below .25 ppm in a tank with no nitrifying bacteria is an impossible expectation.

I did it on my 55g. I only had 15 Cichlids and one Pleco, but it can be done without stressing the fish.
It stressed me but not the fish they were and are fine.

 

[chrisandjess]

Well, i've done another pwc today. The ammonia level is still about 1.5
I cant really over do it on the pwc's tho. my landlord is going crazy trying to figure out why the water bill is so high I dont think he noticed the tank yet. He keeps asking if we have any water leaks. I think i can give away 4 more fish by tommorow, that should help. i'm just getting impatient with not having nitrates yet.

Cant thank you guys enough for the advice.....