NEW to Fishless Cycle - Need Advice!

[PebbleVB]

I'm following the "almost" complete guide to fishless cycle posted on this site by "Eco..." and there are still many questions that I don't know the answers to. I'm new to keeping Betta fish so please pardon my ignorance on the subject. I didn't prepare myself for such a "long" journey, but I think I'm stuck with it!

The instruction said to add pure ammonia to the tank to raise the level to 4 ppm. Well, I don't know how much ammonia to add. I've set up a brand new 10 gallon tank for my one betta yesterday with the filter running. I'm waiting for the heater to arrive as the 25W heater I currently have does not heat up a 10 gallon tank (only found out after I chose the tank size!).

Also, after adding the ammonia to the tank, how long should I wait before doing the test to get accurate reading?

Another point, the article touched about the need to change filter media, if it truly needs a replacement. The article talked about buying a "strip of filter media, and cut it to size and fill it in the filter" - I need a bit more explanation in details on this concept! Does this mean to keep the old filter media, but introducing just the sponge material and somehow stuff it inside the filter along with the old one?

A little background: I kept one betta fish in a 3 gallon with no filter and it's not a cycled tank either. He has fin rot problem for 3 months and I'm trying to provide a better living condition/ environment for him. Thus, the upgrade to 10-gallon tank with fishless cycle and with filter.

Thank you for all your help!

 

[sinibotia]

I would try adding 5 mL of ammonia, or one teaspoon. Test the water 20 minutes after adding it, and then add more as needed.

In general, don't bother changing the filter pads that may have beneficial bacteria on them. I can give more detail on this but it depends on what kind of filter you have. If you have the kind that hangs off the back of the tank, there's probably some black stuff (carbon) in the middle of a filter pad. Empty that out once a month and replace it but continue to use the same pad, just rinse it in tank water/dechlorinated water once a month and then put it back.

 

[Ruffers99]

+1 @sinibotia's comments, additionally if you google aquarium ammonia dosage calculator you should find a couple of tools.

good luck !!

 

[trennamw]

If you're battling fin rot it might be a good idea to move the betta to the 10 gallon right away. Fishless cycling is a great goal, but one betta in a 10 gallon with an Uncycled filter is healthier than in a 3 without a filter. I followed this advice myself, along with testing and water changes, and within a week his fine had new growth.

Just keep on top of water changes in the 10, let the betta be the ammonia source, and be gentle.

A 50w heater might be better for a 10 gallon, amazon has a cheap Tetra one preset to 78 degrees. Also the Tetra whisper filter had a gentle flow. Bettas don't like current, and yours being used to no current and having damaged fins especially needs it gentle.

Good luck and good job upgrading!


Sent from my iPhone with three hands tied behind my back.

 

[dalto]

I would recommend targeting 2ppm instead 4ppm. 4ppm is a very large bio-filter and is more than you need. If you do 4ppm make sure you monitor your kh and pH.

 

[Britty]

I would recommend targeting 2ppm instead 4ppm. 4ppm is a very large bio-filter and is more than you need. If you do 4ppm make sure you monitor your kh and pH.

I agree with this. There is absolutely no need to dose to 4ppm for a single betta.

 

[dragon14]

We dosed to 4ppm when our betta was in a 10g. We tested the cycle out using 4ppm again after he passed and now have a female betta and 7 Pygmy catfish in the tank.

Is dosing to 4ppm bad or is it just not necessary?

 

[dalto]

Dosing to 4ppm is not bad per se. The reason is don't recommend dosing that high is for two reasons.

First, building massive bacteria colonies that process all the ammonia and nitrite consumes KH. If your KH gets too low than pH crashes which stalls your cycle.

The other thing that can happen is that depending on how your cycle goes you can end up with truly massive nitrite spikes which can also inhibit your cycle.

Using lower doses will generally avoid the above two issues and makes your fishless cycle a lot less painful.

 

[Britty]

We dosed to 4ppm when our betta was in a 10g. We tested the cycle out using 4ppm again after he passed and now have a female betta and 7 Pygmy catfish in the tank.

Is dosing to 4ppm bad or is it just not necessary?

The 4ppm guide is based that you have a tank that you intend to fully stock with many fish, in which case 4ppm is still a lot but a reasonable and still very safe figure.

But 4ppm is way overkill for only one Betta.

 

[dragon14]

Thanks for the clarification you two!

I will keep that in mind for the future.

The ph seemed to stay the same the whole time and the cycle went pretty flawlessly. We had between 3-4ppm ammonia.

If that high ppm ammonia is not necessarily needed, why do most guides recommend that?

Maybe I should get a kh/gh testing kit just so we know what it is? I think our water is a bit hard. I don't even totally know what that means lol. That means it has a lot of minerals and stuff right?

But if you get an "off" reading what do you do about it? I don't know if we really need that kit. Things seem to be going well so far!

 

[dalto]

The 4ppm guide is based that you have a tank that you intend to fully stock with many fish, in which case 4ppm is still a lot but a reasonable and still very safe figure.

I have seen this claim passed around a lot and I would love to see some data showing that 4ppm per day is normal for a fully stocked tank. IME, this is quite a bit more than I have seen in practice. As a recent example that is top of mind, I had 8 4-5" Geophagus in a 20g tank and they were producing a little less than 1ppm per day.

The ph seemed to stay the same the whole time and the cycle went pretty flawlessly. We had between 3-4ppm ammonia.

Either your KH was very high to being with or your cycle was fairly fast.

If that high ppm ammonia is not necessarily needed, why do most guides recommend that?

I honestly have no idea. I suppose either extreme conservatism or things being passed down without being firmly understood. I mean, it is not like having a massive biofilter is a problem per se. It just requires managing the water parameters of your cycle more closely.

Maybe I should get a kh/gh testing kit just so we know what it is? I think our water is a bit hard. I don't even totally know what that means lol. That means it has a lot of minerals and stuff right?

But if you get an "off" reading what do you do about it? I don't know if we really need that kit. Things seem to be going well so far!

If things are working for you than you are probably OK. THat being said, I always recoemmnd people have a KH test kit on hand. Primarily because they can sometimes be hard to find locally and when you realize you need one you don't want to be a week away from getting one.

 

[dragon14]

@Dalto
Our cycle lasted about 20 days (10g). Then retesting it, 5ish days.

I think I might pick up the kit next time I'm near the lfs, they always seem to have one when I'm there though!

I think our water is high in minerals though. We have well water too so maybe that helps? I have no idea how all that works though. Lol.

When you say when you have a really strong bio filter and must keep tabs on parameters more so, do you mean weekly testing or what do you mean? I found w the one betta after a week the water was still perfect. We plan to do a 30-50% water change once a week anyway even though it's cycled. That seems to be the recommended way to go! We now have 1 female betta and 7 Pygmy catfish, we were thinking about getting two more pygmy catfish possibly.

 

[dalto]

When you say when you have a really strong bio filter and must keep tabs on parameters more so, do you mean weekly testing or what do you mean?

I mean during the cycle. Once the cycle is complete you should be good either way.

If your water is high in rock content it is probably high in KH as well. I have a similar situation here in central Texas. The water is almost liquid limestone and is fairly unchangeable.

Lastly, if you have easy access to KH kits I probably wouldn't buy one unless you actually need it.

 

[dragon14]

I mean during the cycle. Once the cycle is complete you should be good either way.

If your water is high in rock content it is probably high in KH as well. I have a similar situation here in central Texas. The water is almost liquid limestone and is fairly unchangeable.

Lastly, if you have easy access to KH kits I probably wouldn't buy one unless you actually need it.

Oh ok!

I tested at least every few days but usually every other. I write all fish stuff in a little notebook since we started the cycle!

I'm not sure if our water is high in rock content but I think it might be!

How would one know if they actually need the test?

 

[PebbleVB]

@dalto and everyone - I've been unorganized and have not been able to respond to all of your advice promptly - so sorry!
Ok, so here is where I am and I am "begging" for more advice please!

I did start the fishless cycle tank with pure ammonia - bought from Ace. My ammonia's reading started out between 3 - 4 ppm. This was at least 3 weeks ago. I had the filter on, the heater on - set at 85F and small bubbling stone on.
I did reading every 2 - 3 days, and last Friday when I did my ammonia reading, it did go down to 1 ppm - so basically, after 3 weeks or so, the ammonia went down to 1 ppm. I also went ahead and tested my Nitrite and got my Nitrite reading at .25 ppm.

My questions:
1. I'm using a thermometer where there needs to be a minimum water level so I did have to add extra tap water to the tank every few days during the last 3+ weeks. I also did add Prime when adding extra water, but I did not add Prime every time I added water. The amount of tap water that I added was less than 1 gallon each time so I waited until I had to add more water the 2nd time, then I added in Prime (for 10 gallons measurement, so in my case, it was 1 ml). Is this ok to do? I'm afraid by adding additional tap water, my ammonia and my nitrite reading may be off? What is the correct way for me to add more tap water and Prime , if what I had done was not correct?

2. Do I need to continue with putting more ammonia to the tank during this time? Since I had started the tank and got my tank to come up to 3 - 4 ppm, I have not since then added any additional ammonia to the tank. Am I still doing this correctly?

3. During this time, meaning waiting for the nitrite and nitrate reading, do I need to do any water change at all? If I understand the concept of fishless cycling with ammonia correctly, I do not need to change any water, is this correct?

4. I'm so afraid because I'll be out of town for a whole week during Thanksgiving and my tank will not be ready for my betta - what other concerns should I need to know since my tank seems to do this rather slowly?

THANK YOU all so much for helping me out !

 

[dalto]

1. I'm using a thermometer where there needs to be a minimum water level so I did have to add extra tap water to the tank every few days during the last 3+ weeks. I also did add Prime when adding extra water, but I did not add Prime every time I added water. The amount of tap water that I added was less than 1 gallon each time so I waited until I had to add more water the 2nd time, then I added in Prime (for 10 gallons measurement, so in my case, it was 1 ml). Is this ok to do? I'm afraid by adding additional tap water, my ammonia and my nitrite reading may be off? What is the correct way for me to add more tap water and Prime , if what I had done was not correct?

Adding more tap water will not throw your readings off unless you have ammonia in your tap and even then it would only increase ammonia very slightly. The real issue that you are not adding prime. You need to do this every time, especially if you are on city water. The chlorine/chloramines in the water can be damaging to the bacteria colonies, especially if they are not fully established.

2. Do I need to continue with putting more ammonia to the tank during this time? Since I had started the tank and got my tank to come up to 3 - 4 ppm, I have not since then added any additional ammonia to the tank.

You should be dosing ammonia back to 2ppm when it reaches or gets close to 0. It is not imperative that you do it every day but I would do it at least a couple of times a week if you can.

3. During this time, meaning waiting for the nitrite and nitrate reading, do I need to do any water change at all? If I understand the concept of fishless cycling with ammonia correctly, I do not need to change any water, is this correct?

The only reasons you need to do water changes during a fishless cycle is if your ammonia or nitrites get too high or your pH crashes. I doubt you will have pH issues with the amount of water you are replenishing due to evaporation so just keep an eye on nitrites. As long as they are under 5ppm or so you should be fine.

4. I'm so afraid because I'll be out of town for a whole week during Thanksgiving and my tank will not be ready for my betta - what other concerns should I need to know since my tank seems to do this rather slowly?

It seems like things are moving along if you are seeing nitrites. Just make sure you are dosed up to 2ppm before you leave. Your cycle will be fine for a week without you.

 

[PebbleVB]

Dalto - Thank YOU!!!

Another question, please, if you don't mind:
For my 10-gallon tank that I'm cycling right now, should I add the full Prime amount every time I need to replenish the tank with water, or should I add the exact Prime amount in relation to how much water I will be adding into the tank?

Since keeping betta is new to me, this has been my confusion and I can't seem to find an answer anywhere that spells it out clearly! So I apologize if it sounds silly to you.

You see, I'm currently keeping my betta in a 3-gallons tank with no filter and I read the most recommends for me to change 50-75% water about once a week. However, my betta has been going through fin rot so I've been doing his water change twice/ weekly. I took out 50% of his tank water, add the same Prime amount for 3-gallons - is this correct?
Again, sorry for keeping asking questions! But I truly appreciate your guidance!

 

[dalto]

Dalto - Thank YOU!!!

Another question, please, if you don't mind:
For my 10-gallon tank that I'm cycling right now, should I add the full Prime amount every time I need to replenish the tank with water, or should I add the exact Prime amount in relation to how much water I will be adding into the tank?

If you pull the new water into a bucket or other first than you can pretreat for the amount you are adding. If you are adding the water directly to the tank you need to dose an amount equal to the entire tank.

You see, I'm currently keeping my betta in a 3-gallons tank with no filter and I read the most recommends for me to change 50-75% water about once a week. However, my betta has been going through fin rot so I've been doing his water change twice/ weekly. I took out 50% of his tank water, add the same Prime amount for 3-gallons - is this correct?
Again, sorry for keeping asking questions! But I truly appreciate your guidance!

Yes, if you are adding the water straight into the bowl that is correct. Out of curiosity, how do you dose such a small amount of prime? Do you use a dropper?

 

[trennamw]

Dalto - Thank YOU!!!

Another question, please, if you don't mind:
For my 10-gallon tank that I'm cycling right now, should I add the full Prime amount every time I need to replenish the tank with water, or should I add the exact Prime amount in relation to how much water I will be adding into the tank?

Since keeping betta is new to me, this has been my confusion and I can't seem to find an answer anywhere that spells it out clearly! So I apologize if it sounds silly to you.

You see, I'm currently keeping my betta in a 3-gallons tank with no filter and I read the most recommends for me to change 50-75% water about once a week. However, my betta has been going through fin rot so I've been doing his water change twice/ weekly. I took out 50% of his tank water, add the same Prime amount for 3-gallons - is this correct?
Again, sorry for keeping asking questions! But I truly appreciate your guidance!

Are you testing the water in the betta tank?

In my experience (and I do have many years in this specific situation) a betta without a filter in 3 gallons needs waaaaaayyyy more water changes than that. Especially with fin rot. I'd do 50% daily with API Stress coat. Prime detoxes nicely but Stress Coat dechlorinator has research supporting its claim that the aloe helps heal wounds.

For reference, I keep a betta in a fully cycled 3 gallon with a lot of live plants and a filter meant for a 10 gallon. It requires a 50% change every week to keep water parameters healthy.

I've tried many different things for fin rot. Daily water changes and Stress Coat are my favorite.

Using a gallon as an example ... You can either draw up a gallon of water in a jug, treat it dosing for 1 gallon, and pour that treated gallon into the tank ... Or you fill the jug from the tap, pour it in the tank untreated, and treat for 3 gallons.

For your betta I'd mix a gallon of new water each day, treat it with a high dose of Stress Coat, and add that after removing the dirty gallon of course.


Sent from my iPhone with three hands tied behind my back.