Newbie Needs Help - What Happened??

[JackSpadesSI]

Not that I want to torture my guppies, but if I neutralize the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate in my tank won't that inhibit the growth of the beneficial bacteria by eliminating their food source?

 

[fort384]

no. The ammonia is still present, and still a food source for the nitrobacter bacteria. The prime helps to neutralize it, but it is still there.

I use prime though because of the fact that is far more concentrated than other products... so like was said above, the same amount of prime treats many times as many gallons as the same amount of most other dechlorinators.

 

[JackSpadesSI]

Would anyone like to point me to a good "fish list" for a 10-gallon tank? I've got the two guppies already. I'd like to have neon tetras and zebra danios, too. I should probably get a smaller catfish, as well. Please make your suggestions, too.

I'd like to have 8-10 small fish in the tank so that it looks full and lively. I'd like all of the fish to be easy to care for and very robust.

 

[fort384]

I would skip the catfish in a 10gal tank.
Once the tank is cycled, I would get a school of 10 neons or 8 zebra danios to add into the tank. They are more interesting to watch when they are kept in larger groups. Danios are more hardy - neons can be sensitive to water quality... although not difficult to care for if you keep up with PWCs.

 

[mommytron]

I would do another pwc today--50%. For that size tank a python would work but is unnecessary IMO. I would just use a small gravel vac/siphon.

As far as temp, try and get it to within 1-2 degrees. The human hand is good at determining temp. Just stick your hand in the tank and then under the faucet and try and get close. I have never even checked the temp with a thermometer while doing pwcs and I always just add the water straight away (after adding prime of course!).

From what I've come to understand there's a couple things better about prime:
-Prime neutralizes ammonia. It also states it detoxifies nitrite and nitrate also. This is temporary, but can be helpful while cycling with fish if used during daily PWCs.
-It's more concentrated, it treats more water. In a 100ml bottle: TetraAqua AquaSafe Plus treats 200 gallons, Prime treats 1000.

no. The ammonia is still present, and still a food source for the nitrobacter bacteria. The prime helps to neutralize it, but it is still there.

I use prime though because of the fact that is far more concentrated than other products... so like was said above, the same amount of prime treats many times as many gallons as the same amount of most other dechlorinators.

I would skip the catfish in a 10gal tank.
Once the tank is cycled, I would get a school of 10 neons or 8 zebra danios to add into the tank. They are more interesting to watch when they are kept in larger groups. Danios are more hardy - neons can be sensitive to water quality... although not difficult to care for if you keep up with PWCs.

+1 to all of this.
however, to be honest, i do not quarantine my fish. i do not have hundreds of dollars invested in my fish, so i understand that by not QTing, i run the risk of introducing any disease new fish may be carrying and possibly losing my whole tank. i am aware of this, and, knock on wood, i have not had any problems yet. with a 10gallon tank i think it is a little silly to QT all your fish (unless you KNOW it is diseased) since you have minimal stock anyway. but that is just my 2 cents

i also test temp by hand feel. never have used a thermometer before adding water to the tank. if it is a couple of degrees off it's no biggy, the water that is already in the tank and the heater will both work to even it out.

i think Prime is so recommended around the site (and other sites) because of it's value. it may cost a couple more bucks up front, but will last 5 times as long. it's worth it. also, it will not counter act the nitrogen cycle, whether the Prime neutralizes or not, your fish will always produce ammonia (as well as any left over food) so there will always be a food source for the bacteria as long as there is an ammonia source.

i would also skip catfish, as any cat fish will be too large for your tank. check out otos, they're great algae eaters, stay nice and small, and when you have a group of them in your tank they are some of the most fun fish to watch. just keep in mind that they do prefer to be in groups, so if you have less than 4 they may not be so happy or active.

there are tons of fish that can live happily in a 10 gallon tank. there are TONS of varieties of tetra (which are my favorite). tetras should not be added until your tank is fully cycled however, because they are sensitive to water conditions (like said above, as long as you keep up with weekly PWC's after you are cycled, it's quite easy to accomplish.)

i myself have ember tetras, glowlight tetras, cardinal tetras, and black neon tetras. i also like von rio tetras, cochu's blue tetras, lemon tetras, albino black neon tetras, and penguin tetras.

of the ones above, embers are the smallest. you could get away with 12 easily in a 10 gallon.

there are also dwarf gourami's that you could get in a 10gal, but i have not had luck with them myself. they are very prone to disease and don't usually last long in an aquarium. i have had a flame dwarf gourami and a flamingo gourami, both lasted less than a few months. i know sparkling gouramis stay nice and small, but i don't have any personal experience with them.

 

[JackSpadesSI]

Ok, so what should be my plan of attack for the immediate future to A) protect my guppies and B) get my tank cycled so that I can add more fish?

Should I mess with a product like TetraAqua SafeStart to introduce bacteria quickly? Or, will frequent PWC be sufficient to accomplish A & B?

 

[mommytron]

PWC's all the way. just test your water every day for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. whenever ammonia or nitrIte reach levels above .25ppm, do a PWC (i'd say 50% is a good amount, unless levels are really high, in which case 80% or several PWC's may be needed). when you notice that ammonia and nitrIte are staying at 0ppm, and you have a nitrate reading (which also needs to be monitored, and should not rise above 40ppm. if it does, do a PWC to get it back down. this is why you will need to do weekly PWC's after the cycle is complete, to manage nitrate...and to clean poop, etc.) then your tank is cycled. you will then be able to add some more fish, a few at a time.

there is no need to mess with any sort of chemical or bacteria supplement or anything. your guppies will provide the ammonia, and the bacteria will grow naturally. just keep up with the PWC's and your tank should be cycled in a month or so.

 

[lily8808]

i asked the fish shop to give me the best no matter the price and he handed me prime and stability

 

[JackSpadesSI]

Day 3 and the guppies are still alive and very energetic! The water was *slightly* cloudy today - does that mean the beneficial bacteria have started to grow?

I went to PetSmart to have my tank water tested. Results: ammonia = 0 ppm, nitrite = 0 ppm, nitrate = 0 ppm, pH = 6.2, alkalinity = 40 ppm, hardness = 150 ppm, chlorine/chloramine = 0 ppm.

While I was there I bought the API Master Test Kit. Results: ammonia = between 0 and 0.25 ppm (hard to tell), nitrite = 0 ppm, nitrate = 0 ppm. Here's the really weird part: the pH read all the way at the top of the normal range (7.6) so I tested it with the high range test and it read 8.0. How could PetSmart say 6.2 and my test kit say 8.0 for the same water???

Anyway, I did another PWC and added both Prime and Stability to the new water.

 

[mudraker]

PetSmart and most big retail pet places are notorious for giving bad test results and giving very bad advice on fish keeping in general.

The API test kit will serve you very well.

The cloudiness is a bacterial bloom common to new tanks that are cycling and is 100% harmless to your fish.

You doing it right, it just takes patience.

 

[mommytron]

you're off to a great start Jack. Petsmart probably used test strips when they tested your water, which are known for being inaccurate. just go by whatever your API liquid test kit says. i agree the cloudiness is probably a bacterial bloom, which is a good sign

 

[JackSpadesSI]

I wouldn't fault them for a 0.2 or even a 0.4 difference, but nearly a 2 point disparity - one acidic and one basic - is really extreme.

 

[mommytron]

it's the strips. not only are they pretty much useless to begin with, but if you don't store/handle them properly, they can be exposed to moisture and completely throw off any reading.

 

[andreahp]

I'm new at this too - from what I've read, there is no need for salt when purchasing "live bearers" (swordtails, guppies, etc.) because they've been bred/raised in fresh water and the salt can stress other fish. I also had tanks as a kid and I don't remember whether my parents did any maintanence but, we also had quite a number of fish deaths.

I read extensively about the nitrogen cycle everyone else is mentioning prior to deciding which fish to get as well as how to do tank maintenance. I got the feeling that Petsmart employees know you really want to put fish in the tank whether or not it's really ready. I made sure I got a liquid testing kit and I was very careful to monitor all the "parameters" (ammonia, nitrite, nitrates, etc.). I cycled my tank with goldfish because they are hardy fish, they add ammonia to the water and they lived through the cycling, however, lots of people do the cycling without fish which you would need to read about. The beneficial bacteria form in the biological media of your filter as well as the gravel. A really good website I found is something like "firstaquarium.com" - however, I found the most important things to ensure fish survival are cycling the tank, learning how to feed the right amount, keep "parameters" within safe limits and change the water as often as necessary.

 

[JackSpadesSI]

A pH of 8.0 is rather high. Will this come down naturally during the cycling (I would think bacteria are pH-neutral), or should I fix this chemically?

 

[jenatron]

A pH of 8.0 is rather high. Will this come down naturally during the cycling (I would think bacteria are pH-neutral), or should I fix this chemically?

I can't suggest other methods, but definitely don't use chemicals. They don't keep your level stable, and an unstable PH is worse than a high one.
Typically people around here will tell you PH doesn't matter THAT much as long as its stable.

 

[mommytron]

pretty sure our pH is around 8 as well. it's really not a big deal unless getting fish that are particularly sensitive to pH (like certain cichlids i believe.) most fish that you will come across are very adaptable, and as long as they are acclimated to your water properly, they should be fine.

if you are really worried about the pH being too high, you could try getting a piece of driftwood that is heavy in tannins (mopani is a good choice). the tannins will leach into the water, which will tint the water the color of tea and bring the pH down a little. it's a great way to lower pH with out using chemicals, and will also keep it stable. if you are put off by the tea colored water, you can add carbon to your filter (and/or extra filter floss) to help keep the water clear.

 

[ejaramillo01]

+1 for stable pH, way more important than trying to adjust to a target pH.