Fish still dieing. HELP, need more input!

[runway1]

There is something fundamentally wrong here. I have an 8 week old, 55 gal with 60# LR and a CC with LS base. I run two sediment filters into a PS and then a UV.

All my shrimps, crabs, snails and a scallop are thriving well. EVERYTIME I put in a single fish - it dies. All water parameters read good except NO3's are ~40ppm and stuck there for four weeks.

On a one at a time basis, I've lost 2 LM blennies, 3 clowns, 1 powder brown tang, 3 chromis and 1 flame angel!! Yet, all the crustaceans are doing very well and so is the feather duster. My last death was a clown fish that I introduced last night. He lasted about 12 hours.

What's up??? Do I have a chemical contaminate? Should I try some carbon? why won't NO3's come down? I acclimate vvvvery slowly.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. I'm becoming very frustrated.

 

[malkore]

No skimmer then? I find skimming greatly reduces nitrate and phosphate levels.
How was the tank cycled?
How often and how large are your water changes?

 

[Phyl]

What was the source of the water (if tap, well or city)? Was the tank new? Were any chemicals used in or around the tank? What is your PH, SG, Alk, Ca, temp? What salt are you using? How large was your water change after the cycle?

The UV might be preventing the cycle from completing. Try leaving it off for the next 4 weeks.

Were the fish from the same LFS? Same problems or different? QT them? I would try QTing the fish next time, make sure the water stays up to temp while acclimating. What exactly is your acclimation procedure and did you test parameters of your main and the store water before releasing the animal?

Carbon can't hurt, just don't run it for too long without changing it or it could add to your nitrate problem.

These are just some of the questions that I could come up with that might have an effect on the health of your fish.

 

[austinsdad]

Thought I've heard a CC base can be a nitrate source also.

 

[BDAWG]

How did you acclimate them? Did you use the drip method?

Do you turn off the lights when you release them into the tank? Do you use a stress relieving solution like Stress Coat?

40 ppm of NO3 shouldn't kill your fish like that. Even though it could come down a bit.

 

[runway1]

Let me answer those: I use a skimmer (PS). I cycled with damsels, LR and 25# LS. Then, I did a 20% water change. I've been doing 10% water changes weekly for four weeks. Last night, I did a 20% change and then added my clown. I acclimate over a 1 hour period, slowly adding my tank water.
PH is about 8.0 (test strip)

SG is about 1.023
Don't know about Alk or CA
I used four different LFS's. Two checked my water and said it was OK. No, I don't QT them. There's no fish in my tank now so, you could say my tank is the QT. And yes, I tested the LFS water as well and mine matches perfectly except for the NO3's.

Well, I still bewildered.

 

[runway1]

More answers:
I don't mix water, I just buy sea water direct. I live on the California coast and sea water comes directly to the LFS's from a company on an offshore island.

I acclimate buy floating the bag and slowly adding my tank water over a period of about 1 hour.

I don't turn off the lights or use stress coat. Should I??

 

[Phyl]

The damsels didn't die? I presume that those were returned to the LFS? I don't use stress coat but I definitely turn the lights out. Did they all die pretty fast after introduction? I think your tank is too small to support a tang for the long haul so you probably want to stay away from those.

Test strips are notoriously inaccurate. It would be good to get real numbers on PH and Alk (maybe one of the LFSs will run those tests for you). How much and how often are you adding water? Before I used the drip proc I used a shot glass every 5m to add water to the bag. At the end of acclimation I net the fish and throw the fish store water away. That process has worked great for me.

Did each of your fish die the same way or differently? In the same time period or different?

What was your cycle like? Duration, spikes, diatoms?

Still searching for answers. It doesn't look like it makes sense, but there's probably some underlying root cause for this.

 

[runway1]

Phyl,
Your acclimation process is exactly what I do - shot glass and all. Fish have died anywhere from 12 hours to 2 1/2 weeks.

The tang lasted the 2 1/2 weeks (he was less the 2" and would fit well in my 55 for several months). My cycle spiked in NO2's at about 1 week. Within 10 days, NO2's were 0. I introduced my first fish (the little Tang) at 14 days. He thrived very well for 2+ weeks and I thought I was merrily along. At about 18 days, nothing but constant death. I agree, this just desn't make sense at all.

And yes, I returned the damsels. Little critters lived just fine in a brand new tank :? ! go figure

 

[BDAWG]

I don't turn off the lights or use stress coat. Should I??

Well, I say definitely turn off the lights for at least an hour. The stress coat is an option. Personally I use it because I want to take every precaution I can to make sure the fish acclimate well and their transition is as stressless as possible.

 

[Thumper]

I agree. need solid number's to with with on water qualitys. Start using the drip method for aclimation but I dont think this is your problem. I feel you have the second baddest luck in the world, " Second Only To Me"
Any chance something got in the water. If it were me i would do a couple 50-60% changes and try again.

 

[Phyl]

If it were me i would do a couple 50-60% changes and try again

I was caught between this and suggesting that you throw a raw shrimp in and really watch it cycle.

 

[seaham358]

Drip method is the best way to acclimate fish. Check your salinity and then check the bag the fish is in.... Dump 50% of the water out of the LFS bag(i use a tupperware bowl) drip for 1 hour slowly check silinity of bowl.... If the same salinity then drip for another 30min then put in tank. If not, dump 50% water and start dripping ..... It can take several hours to acclimate fish... Ph, SG are big killers with fish if there way off. Some LFS keep there taks a 1.017-19 and it takes a while to get them to .23-25, It takes me sometimes 3 hours to acclimate a fish.
i also use methylblu in the acclimation process.... I have have not lost a fish using this method(knock on wood)
good luck........

 

[hwtillman1524]

I was a fish killer

I had te same problem. I would put fish in and they would die. What I did in hindsight is add too much to quickly. I am taking a much slower approach now. It has allowed me to reduce my nitrates by 75%, which I believe I was killing my fish.

So I am taking my time and slowing down the process

 

[runway1]

According to the Burgess Atlas on fish, nitrates are a low level concern. Fish can easily tolerate as much as 100ppm with no problem. That's from a published marine biologist.

As for too much too quick, we're only talking about a single fish here. ONE fish, 2" long in a 55 gal.

 

[austinsdad]

Fish can easily tolerate as much as 100ppm with no problem.

I'd like to see that report if possible. And believe me, this is not an attempt to "slam", but I'm just a curious type who likes to see various opinions. Definitely interested in this one.

TIA

 

[runway1]

Here's the source, austindad.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=sr_1_1/102-0917919-2204919?v=glance&s=books

 

[austinsdad]

Oh shoot. I'd have to buy the book. Guess I'll have to check it out at the book store - and of course return it to the shelf.

THX

 

[DaveBeaty]

Here is a thought - a disease with vauge or rapid symptoms.

in less than 72 hours, Brooklynella ( a dinoflagellite scourge) wiped out my 20 gallon tank that had been set up for 9 months. However, it left the camel shrimp completely untouched. Brooklynella is known for attacking Angels, damsels, and especially clownfish. Fish dying, invertibrates living? Might be a cause.

I would love to hear how the fish acted before they died. Typical symptoms are flashing (the fish scratching themself on substrate or decorations), then sitting very still, then keeling over. But this could take place in a span of twelve hours. Clownfish will emit white slimey mucos before they die.

Think I run a quarrentine tank now? Dang skippy!!! (and probably hypo dips, too!)

 

[runway1]

That's interesting, Dave. I didn't notice the clown emitting anything but they do tend to swim in one place looking grim, just before they enter that big fish tank in the sky.

Thanks for the input. I'll keep an eye out. Any test for detecting Brooklynella?