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Old 03-14-2006, 02:55 PM   #1
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Ich! Please Help

I have the Eclipse 12 gallon aquarium which I had set up for a few years as freshwater, then a few months ago I decided to switch over to saltwater. I knew a 12 gallon was a little small for my first SW tank, but I'm limited on space right now.

So anyway, I allowed my tank to cycle for about two months, using the cocktail shrimp method that I learned on here. (It worked, Thanks!)
I have about an inch and a half of live sand and about 15lbs of live rock in my tank.

I purchased two Percula clowns who have been doing well for a month or so, but not even a week ago I purchase about 10 snails and a few hermit crabs as my clean-up crew from liveaquaria.com At the same time I also purchased a yellow clown goby..who seemed rather stressed, but over a few days become a little more adventurous. Today as I was doing my 10% weekly water change I noticed he has a major ich problem.

To make the problem worse, I dont have a quarantine tank which is rather stupid on my part, but I had never needed it in all the years I had freshwater.
If I were to get a 10 gallon quarantine tank I wouldnt be able to fill it up with my main tank water since I only have 12 gallons of it and it would practically drain the tank. Would it just be best to move all my inverts to the 10 gallon and treat the main? I really dont' want to loose my fish or my inverts.
From what im reading I would need to purchase a filter and heater for the quarantine tank as well, but leave out all live rock and sand. Instead of pvc pipe could I just use an aquarium ornament for a hiding place?
I need to act fast, but I don't want to make too many mistakes. Please help.
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Old 03-14-2006, 03:40 PM   #2
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You could try to catch and isolate the fish, but this is added stress when dealing with a reef environment built to the hilt with rock work and a hard to catch sensitive fish that is weakened by external parasites. Get a skunk cleaner shrimp or two to eat the parasites. If they are on the fish, then they are in the system and the skunk cleaners will eat them both off the fish and from the rocks and substrate. Add a garlic soak to the fish food once a week for a few weeks or so. There are reef safe remedies for ich such as Ich Attack, but they are weak and only really work effectively in combination with other methods (the shrimp and garlic). What kind of snails did you get? What type of filter do you have on the tank? What are the basic water parameters? (Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, SG, and temp.). Please post numbered results. Do you pour the bag water the livestock come in into the tank or do you discard it?

Ich is a parasite of opportunity taking on the weaker fish first. Being the yellow clown goby is new, he was already under stress and this lowers the immune system's efficiency. He may have just brought it in and the stresses of being introduced into a new tank may have amplified the infestation. Now you see it and it's hard to see on them when it first starts to show because of their bright yellow coloring. Sort of blurs out other light colors on their scales.

Please remember, most of the marine livestock available on the market for aquariums are wild caught. What they come in with from the ocean becomes amplified in captivity because of such closed systems (aquariums vs the ocean). This is why a QT is important.

If the goby dies, wait a while before trying another...and perhaps a different kind. Clown gobies live among staghorm and other SPS coral is small 'colonies'. A loner in a small tank will not do too well for very long. If you like having something bright yellow, try a yellow watchman goby. They're hardier and do better in smaller tanks than the clown gobies.

Good luck. If he gets better and lives, try getting a small piece of decorative coral with spikes similar to staghorm. You won't find staghorn legally on the market, but a substitute is better than none...and dead skeleton over a live one is still better than nothing. You can try a fake replica of a staghorn. It'll make him feel more 'at home'.
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Old 03-14-2006, 04:16 PM   #3
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My water parameters are:
Ammonia: .25ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: .40ppm
PH: 8.4
SG: 1.018 ppt
Temp: 77 Degrees Fahrenheit

I have Cerith snails, Margarita snails, Super Tongan Nassarius snails and a couple Dwarf Blue Leg hermit crabs.
I'm having an algea problem, or what a book called "diatoms" so I figured my clean-up crew could help with that, which they have for the most part, just not entirely.

I have the standard Bio Wheel filter that comes with the Eclipse 12 aquariums, I did take the bio wheel out once I switched over to SW though. I also added a power sweep powerhead for better circulation.

I try not to get any of the water from the bags in to my tank, but I always end up getting small amounts in.
I too read that Yellow Clown Gobies like SPS corals so I was going to purchase some, but felt as though it would be a mistake because of how high my nitrates are currently

Where do I get the garlic soak from? LFS? I'll also try and locate some skunk cleaner shrimp to aid in the ich cleanup
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Old 03-14-2006, 05:06 PM   #4
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I would suggest...BEFORE getting a skunk cleaner or anything else...that the water is taken care of first.

Do you have a protein skimmer or refugium? If not, you really need one or the other. I'm also guessing you put in too much at once and perhaps some snails died (???). There is an ammonia spike and nitrates are too high. The protein skimmer or refugium will help with that along with a proper feeding schedule and amount.

What do you feed and how much how often?

Start doing small, but frequent water changes...about 5% twice a day or 10% once a day if you have other fish. If not, do one large water change...about 25% then follow up on small changes of 10% every other day for at least a week. Once ammonia is zero and nitrates are below 15 ppm...better under 10 ppm, but we'll work to 15 ppm first, then you can get the shrimp or anything else.

Inverts do not need a QT, but I suggest you put a simple 10 gallon QT together for new fish. Nothing fancy. Just a heater, thermometer, an airp pump driven sponge filter and something for the fish to hide in. You'll need to do frequent water changes to beat ammonia levels. Keep the new fish in the QT for about two weeks. If it breaks out with anything, it's ready to be treated right where it's at. No bio or inverts to worry about.

It is important not to mix water from someone else's tank into your own. Especially from a retail outfit. It's also typical for an LFS to practice the same disease preventatives. Use a soft net or cup the animal in your hands. Put stress coat on your hands before handling fish or coral.

How many watts of lighting does the tank have?

How do you acclimate the newbies?

Kent Marine and SeaChem have garlic soaks and should be available at any LFS.
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Old 03-14-2006, 05:23 PM   #5
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I don't have a protein skimmer or refugium. I havn't really read up on refugiums and I wasn't sure if I could actually put a protein skimmer on such a small aquarium as most protein skimmers say they work for atleast 65 gallons or more. So it would still be advised I get one??

I feed twice a day, usually what they can eat within a few minutes, I do have seaweed algea on a clip in the tank probably every other day, maybe i'm leaving it in too long.
I feed the Hikari Marine "S" pellets, the Hikari freezedried Daphinia as well as frozen brine shrimp. I try and do the pellets in the morning and then switch between the freezedried daphinia and frozen brine shrimp at night.

I belive the wattage on the tank isnt all that great, I belive its 13 watts..I think im kind of restricted to what I can use becuase of how the eclipse tanks have everything built in to the hood.

When I acclimate the new fish and inverts I let them sit for about 15-20 minutes in the bag on the water to temp acclimate them. Then I cut it open and every few minutes I add half a cup of the aquarium water to the bag once the bag is full I dump most of it out and release them in to the tank.

So in the mean time how should I take care of my clown goby? Should I still get the garlic soak and ich treatment and once the water is well get the shrimp?

Thanks for your help so far.
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Old 03-15-2006, 12:46 AM   #6
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Before buying anything else...you should be investing in one of the following....

http://www.redseafish.com/Product.as...D=34&proID=126

You can still use a skimmer even if it'll take care of much more water than what you have. I have an Eco System 40 refugium on an 18 gallon mini reef and the tank has been doing quite well for over 4 years. It'll take care of up to 40 gallons and fits nicely on the back of any 10. 12, or 18 gallon tank. Take a look at my gallery. It's all photographs of the 18 gallon mini I have. I really like the refugium. Does a reef good

http://www.aquatichouse.com/FILTRATI...iles/Eco40.asp

Worth the cost!!

The tank needs one or the other.

I always found pellet food to be messy and weigh kind of heavy on the waste load. Daphnia, BTW, is FW food. Not nutritious enough for marine. Neither is brine shrimp, but better than daphnia. Start feeding a good flake food as a staple. Omega One and Ocean Nutrition have good flake foods. You can go ahead and mix what you still have with it, then just don't get any more pellets or daphnia. I like a mix of Omega One marine flake with a veggie flake. Brine shrimp and other thawed out morsals should only be treats unless the fish refuse to eat the flakes. The best way I found to portion food for fish is to give them a time limit. Marine fish should be allowed up to five minutes of food per day, but sparingly throughout the day and in a reef, only a few days of the week. Start skipping two days out of the week and limit food to three minutes in a day, three times a week until the water quality is balanced again.

Wattage of light for most coral lay between 3 and 6 watts per gallon. 4 to 5 is efficient, but to keep SPS coral, you'd need about 7 to 9 watts per gallon. You can either retro fit a PC fixture into the Eclipse lid or just get a new lighting system...

Current-USA have Satellites and Orbit light fixtures. These are lighting systems that include lunar lighting. They are well built, made for reef, and are affordable. Cost a little more than Coralife fixtures (you can check them out too), but are more attractive and have the lunar lighting. for small sizes.

To start treating the fish, get the garlic soak and the Ich Attack. Tending to the nitrates is important because lower nitrates will help keep the ich from proliferating madly in the tank. It helps control the outbreak so it is treatable. Higher nitrates make it more difficult to get rid of parasites.

Keep me updated
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Old 03-15-2006, 03:53 AM   #7
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http://tricitytropicals.com/index.as...S&Category=663

Here's the link I was looking for earlier. This is the price page. The page before it is the information page about the lighting system. This is for the dual lights. It'll give you 80 watts of lighting and should be able to satisfy small SPS frags. What I like are the independent on/off switches for each bulb. One bulb should be actinic and one daylight. Moonlight is built in also having it's own switch. The independent switches I don't think Coralife have for that size if at all.

To get the maximum benefit of natural phase lighting is to turn on the actinics for about an hour before the daylights to similate a dawn period. Then 8 hours later, turn the daylights off and allow a dusk period of an hour with just the actinic before lights out completely with just a lunar light till dawn again. Not only does this similate natural lighting phases but also keeps the fish from injuring themselves from being frightened of sudden bright light or sudden darkness.
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We, as a people, know so much more about outer space than we do about our own oceans. This lack of knowledge can very well spell the dangers that lay in wait for us.

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Old 03-17-2006, 02:15 AM   #8
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Time for an update : )

Well, I did go ahead and purchase a protein skimmer. I ended up getting the Red Sea Deluxe Prism Skimmer...It seems like it will be adequate for my aquarium. I did order it online so I don't have it yet, but it is on its way.
I went ahead and purchased the flake and veggie flake foods by omega one. Not quite sure if they're fond of it yet, but I know I did see my snails eating it up : ) I did also get the garlic additive as well and have been mixing the food in with it.
I've done two 10% water changes so far and have done two treatments with the Ich Attack medication. My yellow goby doesn't seem to be improving at all, I don't expect a miracle with this medication, but now i'm not so sure it's Ich after all. Is it normal for it to look like there are things hanging off of him? He doesnt just have white spots, it looks like he has stuff hanging off of him all over his body. Maybe it is still ich since its an external parasite, or do you think it could maybe be a different kinds of parasite?
I did go ahead and retest my water and this is what came up.
Temp: 77 Degrees
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrates: 30ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Alkalinity: 300
PH: 8.4
SG: 1.019
I'm just crossing my fingers that everything ends up well in the end.
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Old 03-17-2006, 11:34 AM   #9
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If it looks stringy, that wouldn't be ich, but not normal either. Not much you can do other than keep with the Ich Attack. It helps with other things. I know what you're talking about though, but don't have a name for it. Don't know exactly what it is either, but it looks like debris caught and hanging on slothy slime. If you can see an appearance of excess slime or mucus it ccould mean irritation from parasites. Those fish are almost too small to get a good look at them. I take super macro pictures for photographing tiny things like that. Once transferred to the computer, I can zoom in and get a good look. It would help to get a picture.

There is improvement on the bio. Ammonia is zero and nitrates went down some. Keep it up Once the nitrates come down a bit more and so long as ammonia and nitrite remain zero, go ahead and get the skunk cleaner shrimp. Acclimate slowly using a drip line for at least half an hour to an hour. Use a net or cup the shrimp in your hands to transfer the shrimp to avoid getting bag water into the tank. If the little goby lets him, the shrimp will help clean the little guy up.

You're doing good. Remained focused on water quality.



It's hard for tiny things to adjust, especially marine.
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The oceans surely would swallow us before a rock comes down to smite the planet of it's life.
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