a suitable way to get rid of ich?(tank still cycling)

[exactionfigure]

I recently set up a 20 gallon and was cycling it with fish(it's a long story why )and things were going well, it's been about 2 weeks and the ammonia is almost gone and the nitrites are pretty high, so far there are no signs of nitrates yet. while watching my tank last night I noticed my fish now have small white dots on their body I looked up pictures of ich and sure enough that's what it was, I know any ich meds will kill off the nitrifying bacteria in my tank and I don't want to start all over again, so I called up my LFS and to my surprise they said they would take the fish back, so I brought them back last night and now I am worried about how to keep my tank cycling with no fish, I don't want to do the traditional 'no fish' cycling because that would involve putting mass amounts of ammonia in my tank and I'm afraid I am already past that point, I think to keep things moving smoothly I have to have a constant source of small amounts of ammonia(i.e. fish) but I don't want to go out and get another fish because I am not sure how long ich will live in the water, I assume it will die off with no hosts in the tank but what is their life span?

How long until I know my tank is ich free?
How can I continue the cycling process smoothly?

Thanks
-Matt

 

[Tiffi]

I don't know if ich can be starved to death, but you can rise the temperature to 86F and keep it there for the next two weeks, that should kill it.

I cycled all my tanks with cheap fishfood. Just put 1/2 Tsp. in every few days or when the first ones are disolved/gone. Never had any problems, it keeps the cycle going, cheap, and I even added fragile (German Blue Rams) to the tank as my first fish and had no problems.

 

[bosk1]

Tiffi's advice sounds like it should do the trick, Matt. You should definitely increase the temp above 86 (not sure how long they can live without a host, but I think they will hang around quite a while if you don't "bake" them; and note: up to 86 degrees, the warmer it is, the more they thrive; you have to get above 86 to kill them) But there is also no reason why you can't add ammonia. You still need an ammonia source to keep the ammonia>nitrite bacteria going. Tiffi's suggestion about the fish food should do the trick. But it will also add a lot of gunk to the tank that you will just have to clean up later. The ammonia will just be converted by your bacteria, so no cleanup involved.

 

[CGGorman]

Is a Diatom filter out of the question?

 

[exactionfigure]

Is a Diatom filter out of the question?

I don't know what that is.

If the temp is above 86 will that effect the nitrifying bacteria?
How hot can they stand and for how long, I will put my tank up to 86 for about 2 maybe 3 weeks at the moment I have one of those hang on back heaters and they are very inaccurate so 86 could easily go to 90 or even higher

I don't want to kill the beneficial bacteria.

-Matt

 

[exactionfigure]

Oh also, when is it ok to change my filter and do a water change, I don't plan on doing both at the same time.
Some people have told me not to change the filter because of the bacteria but
my filter inserts have carbon in them so I have to change them also it has a bio wheel that the bacteria is supposed to live on I was thinking of changing the filter every 2 months and doing a water change every month, I know it all depends on fish load and I’m not sure how I plan to stock the tank yet but I don't want to change the filter too often.

Thank you

-Matt

 

[Zagz]

You should do a water change asap with high nitrites. Don't change your filter media until the cycle is completely done and then maybe not event then for a while. Depending on the type of filter you have, it should have a sponge or some other media that never gets changed only rinsed in tank water. If that is the case you can change the removable filter portion when the cycle is done. I recommend doing pwc's every week not every month, but your test kits will tell you what works best with whatever you choose to stock. IMO once a tank is cycled there is no such thing as doing too many water changes.

Turning the temps up to 87 F can be done for up to a month if need be IMO. With no fish 2 weeks should be sufficient. Dont worry about the numbers on the heater, rely on a thermometer only.

Adding ammonia or fish food will keep your cycle going, since you have had fish in there already, I would cycle with cheap fish food myself as suggested.

 

[bosk1]

If the temp is above 86 will that effect the nitrifying bacteria?
How hot can they stand and for how long, I will put my tank up to 86 for about 2 maybe 3 weeks at the moment I have one of those hang on back heaters and they are very inaccurate so 86 could easily go to 90 or even higher

I don't want to kill the beneficial bacteria.

-Matt

I cannot remember what temperature begins to effect the bacteria, but 87-89 seems to be just fine. I am unfortunately treating for ich right now, and my temp is in that range. None of my parameters have spiked (indicating a problem with the nitrifying bacteria), nor do I expect them to. Tom2K can give more details about the specifics. If he does not see your thread and post here, you might want to pm him.

Oh also, when is it ok to change my filter and do a water change, I don't plan on doing both at the same time.
Some people have told me not to change the filter because of the bacteria but
my filter inserts have carbon in them so I have to change them also it has a bio wheel that the bacteria is supposed to live on I was thinking of changing the filter every 2 months and doing a water change every month, I know it all depends on fish load and I’m not sure how I plan to stock the tank yet but I don't want to change the filter too often.

Thank you

-Matt

If you have the biowheel, you can change the filter inserts, but you do not need to. Many just cut them open and remove the charcoal (you do not need the charcoal unless you are trying to remove meds or certain impurities in the water). When you notice the filter inserts getting dirty, gently rinse them in aquarium water that you have taken out after a pwc. How often depends on how dirty they get. As for pwc's, you should not wait to do them once a month. Recommendations vary, but optimal is every 1-2 weeks depending on who you ask. Bottom line: you can't change the water too much, and your fish love water changes.

 

[sherry]

I went thru a cycle with fish when I changed tanks.. I was foolish. I figured my seasoned filter and substrate would be enough ot avoid the cycle, but I was wrong.

I also had to treat for ich due to the stress at the same time.

I slowly raised my temp to 86 degrees... and I did pwc's of about 10 percent TWICE A DAY ... the cycle finished well and I was able to keep the nitrites under .5 which kept the fish in as good a shape as I coulid expect.

the ich went away too.

 

[CGGorman]

Is a Diatom filter out of the question?

I don't know what that is.

-Matt

It's power filter that uses a powdered filter media called diatomaceous earth. Vortex is a common one. You can get rolling for under $100 and have a sparkling clear, Ich-free tank w/o medication or raising temps to lethal levels. To filter out the Ich, you will have run the filter continuously throughout the organism's life-cycle (a week, IIRC?), so the System One filter won't do it, where a Vortex will...

http://www.diatomfilter.com/

 

[jcarlilesiu]

ich will die with out a host fish, and the life cycle depends on the temp of the water as well as other factors. I believe at 80 degrees the life cycle for ich is like 3-5 days... in ponds it could be several weeks. high temps speed it up, but im nearly postive with my research that with out a host, the ich will die.

 

[exactionfigure]

it makes sense

the temp is around 85 and I will keep it that way for about 2 weeks,I add fish food everyday as if there were still fish in
then im going to add a couple of fish assuming the cycle will be done by then.

-Matt

 

[Skyrmir]

Lifecycle for ich is about 3 days to who knows how long. The eggs in the gravel will survive refrigeration, not sure if they survive freezing. 86+ degrees and the free swimming stage of ich dies in seconds to minutes. The higher temperature also causes the eggs to hatch faster (in the 3-5 day range).

Can't say for sure on the nitrifying bacteria. I know in salt water I've seen them survive 96 degrees for 3 days with no problems, and 98 degrees for over a week in freshwater. So I'd say as long as your about 86-92, I doubt you'll have any problems at all, and it may even speed up your cycle as long as there is a good O2 supply.

I'd say since there are no fish in the tank, crank it to 90, drop in some fish food. Ponder the possibilities of fishies until your cycle's done. From the sound of it, the ich should be dead within a week, two to be safe, and about that time your cycle should be finishing up.