Black Moor behavour worries

[chrisnield]

Hi guys

I'm afraid I can't provide any up to date tank reading as I'm at work but at the last water change there was nothing out of the ordinary.

Maybe I'm worrying too much but my Black Moor Regine is spending a heck of a lot of time near the top of the tank and I can't put my finger on what it can be.

The tank is 26 gallon and Regine is the only occupant.

Here's a video of a pretty frequent pattern of behaviour - breathing at the surface and then normal and then back up again.

http://youtu.be/xzjwtWmtNvQ

Anyone spot anything here?

Thanks!
Chrishttp://youtu.be/xzjwtWmtNvQ

 

[revchristinejday]

Dear Chrisnield,

Regine is beautiful! Does Regine do this right after the water change or in a few days time. Sometimes Moors are very sensitive to even slight water deficiencies. 0 for ammonia and nitrite and 40 or less for nitrate is the goal. (Although with high nitrates bottom-sitting is norm not at the top,) What type of food are you feeding? Sinking pellets or flakes? For goldies sinking pellets are the best because they then look down for food rather than at the surface. How much aeriation do you have? Too little aeriation/surface agitation via airstone or HOB, can send some goldies to the surface more frequently. Finally whats the water temperature? In higher temps, there's less oxygen in water and that can lead to surface grazing.
Chris

 

[chrisnield]

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the reply! And thanks for the compliments - her fins really are spectacular!

Regine does this quite regularly every day to be honest, but more so in the evening I tend to find and after feeding. She often takes to sitting at the bottom, too and does get a bit listless.

I feed her three pre-soaked sinking pellets every day in one sitting but once a week (sometimes more) she'll have a blanched and mushed pea instead.

Immediately after feeding on pellets she often gets a bit floaty, too.

By aeriation do you mean air stone? If so, I don't have one - just a filter which would suit a tank twice the size.

I'm really not sure of the water temperature I'm afraid. We don't have a heater/thermometer.

Thanks for any advice you can give and sorry for not having all the answers!

Chris

 

[jlk]

Hi! I would definitely an airstone/bubbler or two. From the video, I can not see any kind of surface movement/breaking that would help to increase the oxygen levels and it looks like she is gulping air at the surface. She is pretty!!

Second, when you are home again, can you please check your water parameters (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, ph) and post these results? We need to rule out any possible water quality issue that was cause/contribute this behavior as well. Moors are quite sensitive to their parameters.

Third, it sounds like she needs a diet overhaul and this may be further contributing to her behavior (especially the floatiness). Her issues related to her diet are going to continue to get worse with time if you dont make some adjustments right now. You need to start offering plain, cooked veggies daily & some occasional fruits (2-3x wk). Some meals of live/fresh protiens as well. Most importantly, I would switch her over to a gel food diet and get rid of the processed foods altogether. They are aggravating her buoyancy issues. You can check out The GAB (the goldfish and aquarium board) for easy gel food recipes. U-Tube also has instructional videos. Making gel food is ALOT easier than it sounds so dont let it scare you! Please ask if you have any questions!!

 

[chrisnield]

Hey there!

Thanks for the reply. Sometimes I place the filter slightly higher so it makes bubbles in the water but will go out and buy and air stone tomorrow to help even more.

Next water change I do tomorrow I'll post readings.

Also, what kind of fruit would you recommend? I'll put Regine on a pea a day diet for the next few days.

Thanks!
Chris

 

[jlk]

Vary your cooked veggies- peas being fed alone are not the best idea because they are full of sugar. Broccoli florets, cauliflower florets, bits of spinach, kale, turnip greens, aspargus heads, carrots, peppers, etctetc. I use a garlic press to smoosh harder stuff into tiny bits. Just skip the heavy starches (corn, potatoes) & spicy stuff. Obviously, dont throw all of this in at once! Try different things to see what she likes- broccoli is a fav of my guys. Dont expect her either to immediately take to the veggies- it may take awhile before she realizes this is something good to eat!

For fruits (not every day), orange/tangerine, soft apple/pear/peach, banana, bits of berry/grape, melon, etc. Once again, experiment a bit to see what she likes. Tangerine segments (in juice not heavy syrup) & watermelon are a fav here!

For fresh protiens, try frozen bloodworms, brine shrimp, earthworms/soft bugs & human grade fish/seafood. No freeze dried stuff. Good luck & keep us posted!

 

[chrisnield]

I picked up and installed a 4" air stone yesterday but I really don't think Regine likes it. I've seen her get swept up and violently tossed upside down by it three times already which appears to have shaken her up as she is now bottom sitting worse than ever. So, I have now decided to switch it off and use the PF2's venturi to create some surface movement and bubbles which albeit isn't as strong as the air stone but seems to be working.

Since my last post she has eaten some mushed up carrot, live daphia and a pea which I fed her this morning. I think the main problem will be that she's constipated. I've not seen any poop in the tank for about 3-4 days now, maybe more.

Going to the pet shop now to get some new water readings as I've ran out of tests. I did a liquid ammonia test though which read 0.

Thanks!
Chris

 

[chrisnield]

Here are my latest water readings:

PH - 6.4
KH mg/l - 50
GH mg/l - 250
Nitrate mg/l - 10
Nitrite mg/l - 0
Ammonia mg/l - 0

Thanks!

 

[chrisnield]

Hi guys,

Can anyone take a look at this video for me and let me know what you think?

My Black Moor has been off and on acting weird for the past two days.

Anyone seen similar to what happens at 20 secs in - coming to the top, aiming a gill out of the water, then floating listlessly?

Regine acting weird - YouTube

I treated Regine with Interpet No. 8 Anti Fungus and Fin Rot yesterday because you can see the tail fins at torn a bit.

I gave her some gel bloodworm yesterday and a de-shelled pea today which was greedily eaten, but she is not right at all.

This morning's reading are:

PH - 6.4
KH mg/l - 50
GH mg/l - 125
Nitrate mg/l - 10
Nitrite mg/l - 0
Ammonia mg/l - 0

She's in a 17 gallon tank on her own with a PF 2 filter. Water temp is a constant 25/77. Water changes are done with aquarium salt and King British safe water.

Thank you!

 

[jlk]

Her fins actually look fine to me in the video but she is acting a bit odd. I dont think the meds or salt are necessary here & would work on removing them. Try offering her only veggies for the next few days with some occasional fruits. Not just peas either- peas are very high in sugar & should not be fed daily (same as fruits). She should be offered veggies daily so she has something to munch on. I know you mentioned previously you added a bubbler but she was tossed around by it- can you try something different? Dont use the bubbler itself but stick the end of the hose itself into the gravel in a corner- air will still come out & only create bubbles in one corner. Stick it on the opposite side from the filter outflow. Another thing to consider is adding a bit of buffer to your filter- your ph really is on the low side for fancies & this may be a factor. No ph chemicals! A bit of crushed coral or argonite added in a piece of pantyhose to your filter should help buffer the ph up a bit (6.8-7). Keep us posted!

 

[chrisnield]

Thanks for that! I will try all those things.

I've just added the end of the air hose to the tank and it's making a great amount of bubbles in the corner. I've not actually ran it from the gravel, just dipped it about four inches in as pictured. As you can see Regine is up and about wondering what's going on!

How do I add the coral etc to the filter? Just place it in the chamber in material?

Thanks!

 

[jlk]

If the bubbles are excessive, you can install a little check valve on the line (less than $1 at lfs) or tie a loose knot in the hose. Just having the bubbles break at the surface though should help increase the overall surface for air exchange.

Some other buffers are crushed seashells/oyster shells (try bird section of petstore) or cr limestone. Cr coral/argonite are in the sw section of your lfs. Just add a spoonful to a piece of clean pantyhose (not washed in soap) & stick it in your filter housing/chamber so water flows through it. Then check your ph daily to see if its having any effect. You dont want your ph jumping up to the high 7/8 range but just to bump it up a bit. If it jumps too much, remove some. If it doesnt move after 24hrs, add bit more. There isnt a 'set' amount to add & you will just need to monitor your ph & adjust the amount accordingly to find a balance.

 

[revchristinejday]

Dear chrisnield,
Regine is beautiful and jlk is offering good advice. Regine may be having some buoyancy issues and veggies will help. Are you soaking the fish food? Or using sinking pellets? Sometimes flakes and other food which floats can contribute to floatiness.

Good luck,
Chris

 

[chrisnield]

Hi guys

Thank you for the replies. It seems that since the air pump hose has been in the tank, Regine has been much livelier.

In fact, I've not seen her sat down for four days none stop now which I'm really happy about!

Hoping the torn fins will clear up in the next few weeks so she'll be back to her best again.

She's being fed on deshelled peas, mushed up carrot, gelled bloodworm and pre-soaked sinking pellets, but predominantly veggies.

Fingers crossed that's the end of the problems for a little while!

Chris

 

[jlk]

Glad to hear she is doing better!! She really is beautiful!

 

[chrisnield]

Thanks jik!

She's definitely a special one. Haven't seen fins like Regine's on any Moor before.

I think I may have jinxed myself with yesterday's post as we had an unusually warm day (for Manchester, England) yesterday and I think it's contributed to Regine's water going cloudy white.

I did a 50% treated water change before bed last night and the water is still really cloudy this morning.

The filter is working, although doesn't seem to be flowing as strong as usual and the air hose is doing its job.

Any ideas on how to quickly sort it out? Regine doesn't seem affected though and is happily swimming around like nothing's wrong.

Thanks!
Chris

 

[jlk]

No reason to panic! Just do some extra water changes & it should sort itself out with a bit of time. As long as Regine seems content & is happily swimming around, theres no reason to worry.

 

[chrisnield]

Great! Thank you!

 

[GoldfishJoey]

I had that same problem with my black Moore and I placed a power head to agitate the surface of the water and that seemed to help her gulping at the surface! She's gotten a lot better. Black moore's are sensitive. A lot of the time she's my indication that I need to do a water change. I do mine weekly. Hope everything works out!

 

[shellieca]

Thanks jik!

She's definitely a special one. Haven't seen fins like Regine's on any Moor before.

I think I may have jinxed myself with yesterday's post as we had an unusually warm day (for Manchester, England) yesterday and I think it's contributed to Regine's water going cloudy white.

I did a 50% treated water change before bed last night and the water is still really cloudy this morning.

The filter is working, although doesn't seem to be flowing as strong as usual and the air hose is doing its job.

Any ideas on how to quickly sort it out? Regine doesn't seem affected though and is happily swimming around like nothing's wrong.

Thanks!
Chris

I have an HOB & I noticed it wasn't flowing as usual, I took off the intake arm & was all gunked up. Cleaned it out & it works like it did when it was brand new.