Black Moore sitting on floor not moving and panting

[Fridgeroo]

Hi

My Black Moore is very sick. Quite certain it's Ich.
I noticed he was sick last week Monday. He was first hiding in a plant but since has been sitting on the floor behind the filter not moving, panting, and looking very sick. I started dosing with Seachem Paraguard immediately. He had a white dot on his side. He now has three.
I am worried because the fish is not improving and looks very ill. My specific questions are:
1) Whether I should continue to use Paraguard. The bottle says to only keep using it as long as the fish show no stress. But this isn't super helpful since the fish was showing stress before I started using it.
2) What else can I do?
3) Why isn't he improving? (the water temperature is at 25 Celsius so I would expect the Ich life cycle to be relatively fast. I haven't put it any higher in case I stress the fish further. I can't put it lower because the heater isn't even on that's just how hot it gets here).

I filled out a whole form with all the parameters and such for fishlore.com but after 4 days noone there has helped me but the form is quite useful so pasting below. Thank you very much for the help.

Tank
What is the water volume of the tank?
25 Gallon
How long has the tank been running?
1 month
Does it have a filter?
yes
Does it have a heater?
yes
What is the water temperature?
25 Celsius
What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.)
1 black moore 1 fancy goldfish

Maintenance
How often do you change the water?
for the last few days, 20% every day (update: I've stopped doing this now to prevent losing too much oxygen. I'm treating water for 48 hours now before adding it. So only changing every third day now). Normally once a week at 30%
What do you use to treat your water?
Seachem prime
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water?
yes both

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish?
Yes but after adding fish I had a bit of trouble with Nitrite for 3 days. Fixed it.
What do you use to test the water?
JBL Pro Aqua test
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.
Ammonia: <0.05
Nitrite: <0.01
Nitrate: 3
pH: It's back to 7 now but it keeps dropping to 6.5. Then I add a very small amount of alkaline buffer to get it back to 7.

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish?
twice daily
How much do you feed your fish?
As much as they eat in ~2 minutes
What brand of food do you feed your fish?
Tetra
Do you feed frozen?
No
Do you feed freeze-dried foods?
I bought some with the Seachem Paraguard on Monday and I've fed them this once.

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish?
5 months
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms?
6 days (update, now 10 days)
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms?
Two simptoms. First, 2 white dots. I assumed Ich. Started adding Seachem Paraguard 5 days ago.
Second, the fish hides behind the filter and stays there not moving. Looks asleep/dead. When I come to feed he gets up and swims around a bit and eats. Then goes back.
Have you started any treatment for the illness?
Yes Seachem Paraguard 5 days go.
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase?
No
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all?
It looks less black. More pale/grey.

Explain your emergency situation in detail.
I got the fish a few months ago after my sister's flatmate abandoned it when moving out. It was just living with guppies in a 6 gallon tank. So I bought a bigger tank (25 gallon) and got him a friend (smaller goldfish) and left the guppies in the 6 gallon. I came downstairs on Monday and the fish was hiding in a plant not moving. The little goldfish was with him but the little goldfish is fine, I think he just likes to follow the big one around. That said, the little Goldfish I bought at the shop so maybe it came with a parasite. So on Monday I figured the light was too bright and turned it down. But the next day the fish was hiding again and I also noticed two white spots had appeared on its side. I ordered seachem paraguard (and salt but I haven't used any of the salt. But I have it if I need to use it). I started treating with paraguard immediately. But the fish has only become less and less active. It now only comes out when I feed it. Otherwise it's just hiding. Not moving. The little fish sometimes goes and pokes him but he just stays there. The white spots are less visible now.

Paraguard says to keep treating as long as the fish isn't stressed. But the fish was stressed before I started the treatment. So... I don't know.

 

[Aiken Drum]

Can you include a clear photo of these dots on your fish?

 

[Fridgeroo]

Looks like there's 5 or 6 dots now. Two at the front of the fish and the rest at the back right

 

[Jacky12]

How did you cycle the tank? Often it requires more than a month to cycle, it all depends upon methods used. I am unfamiliar with the water testing system you use. I do API. Levels range from 0 ppm to 160 ppm for nitrates.

Are you oxygenating the tank either with air stones or a foam sponge filter? Both run off an air pump. The air pumps and stones are inexpensive. I needed an extra pump & got one at Walmart yesterday. I keep one big sponge filter attached to air pumps ay each end of my goldfish tanks, but it’s a 125 G & you only need one. The aeration is essential.

 

[Colin_T]

Hi and welcome to the forum

Can we get a picture of the fish from the side showing the dots?
Does the new fish have dots?
What are the ingredients in the paraguard?

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Basic fish first aid.

Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge. This removes the biofilm on the glass and the biofilm will contain lots of harmful bacteria, fungus, protozoans and various other microscopic life forms.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week or until the problem is identified. The water changes and gravel cleaning will reduce the number of disease organisms in the water and provide a cleaner environment for the fish to recover in. It also removes a lot of the gunk and this means any medication can work on treating the fish instead of being wasted killing the pathogens in the gunk.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. However, if the filter is less than 6 weeks old, do not clean it. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use the media. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn. Cleaning the filter means less gunk and cleaner water with fewer pathogens so any medication (if needed) will work more effectively on the fish.

Increase surface turbulence/ aeration to maximise the dissolved oxygen in the water.

 

[Jacky12]

ParaGuard™ is the only fish and filter safe aldehyde based (10% by weight) parasite control product available (for parasites on fish). Unlike highly toxic and difficult to use formalin based medications, ParaGuard™ contains no formaldehyde or methanol and will not alter pH. ParaGuard™ employs a proprietary, synergistic blend of aldehydes, malachite green, and fish protective polymers that effectively and efficiently eradicates many ectoparasites (e.g. ich, etc.) and external fungal/bacterial/viral lesions (e.g., fin rot). It is particularly useful in hospital and receiving tanks for new fish and whenever new fish are introduced to a community tank.

Above is from Seachem

 

[Danio8]

You could also try raising the temperature to 27 c. That might help shorten the ich life cycle a little.

 

[Colin_T]

ParaGuard™ is the only fish and filter safe aldehyde based (10% by weight) parasite control product available (for parasites on fish). Unlike highly toxic and difficult to use formalin based medications, ParaGuard™ contains no formaldehyde or methanol and will not alter pH. ParaGuard™ employs a proprietary, synergistic blend of aldehydes, malachite green, and fish protective polymers that effectively and efficiently eradicates many ectoparasites (e.g. ich, etc.) and external fungal/bacterial/viral lesions (e.g., fin rot). It is particularly useful in hospital and receiving tanks for new fish and whenever new fish are introduced to a community tank.

Above is from Seachem

Thanks Jacky
It's basically Malchite Green and Formaldehyde (regardless of what they say).
It will treat external protozoan parasites like white spot, velvet, Costia, Chilodonella and Trichodina.


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For the OP, is the fish black or white?
In the picture it looks more white than black. If the fish is covered in cream/ white mucous, that is more likely to be a water quality issue. In severe cases, it can look like white bumps and dots coming off the fish. The best treatment at this stage is big water changes and gravel cleaning the substrate every day until we get a better picture of the fish to make a more definitive answer.

 

[Colin_T]

You could also try raising the temperature to 27 c. That might help shorten the ich life cycle a little.

Raising the temperature will speed up most parasites life cycle but we need to know what it is first. If they just increase the temperature and don't treat appropriately, the disease could multiply faster and kill the fish before we know what it is. So at this stage, keep the water cooler to slow the growth of the parasite/ disease, and get better pictures so we can ID the problem.

 

[Fridgeroo]

Thank you to everybody for all of the great input. Regretfully, when I checked the tank this morning, the fish had passed away.
I wish I had come to this forum first. At least now I know for future.
Those asking about the other fish, it still looks very healthy, no signs of problems.
I will do a large water change now, and I think I should keep dosing paraguard a bit longer to remove any remaining ich from the water.

Thanks again.

 

[Jacky12]

I’m so sorry you lost the fish. Do you have an air stone or aerated sponge filter? My apologies if you mentioned it, but the forum sick fish form is too lengthy IMO and in need of editing & I was unable to read every word.

 

[Fridgeroo]

Hi Jacky12

My filter has an air tube attached which releases bubbles. Is this good enough or do I need an airstone as well?

 

[Jacky12]

I have never used such a filter, but it sure looks sufficient to me, especially in a 25 G tank. I have Seachem Tidal filters that can used without additional aeration, but I added more because I have big tanks. I once called Seachem & they said the filters only were used for their office tanks, but they didn’t mention the tank sizes.