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Old 10-12-2014, 02:31 AM   #1
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Black Moor Problem, help please!

Hello

I have a black moor for about 5 months. & a red cap oranda for about 4 months. They both live together in a 20 tank long. Both are doing amazing about a month ago. I decided to get a pleco and I noticed after few hours the black moor had a chunk of him missing so I figured there's nothing else in the tank but the filter rocks and one plant there's nothing he could have scratched himself on, especially since he never got a wound in the four months prior this Pleco. So I decided as hard as it was to return the pleco, it had to be done considering o already brought the black moor (Babs) back to life after buying him from petland.

.. But now for a month my black moor has not been the same since I bought the pleco, even though the plus go was gone within 3 days of having him. The black more Babs hasn't been swimming around as much as he always used to he was a bigger than the red cap oranda but now they're about the same size Blackmore eats all the time so I don't think there's anything wrong, but I do noticed him coming up to the top of a lot more to get air. sometimes I see him jump a little bit out of the water and back in which is a little odd he never did that as well. And he stays to the top a little bit more than usual and the top of his eyes and the top of his top fin sticks out of the water a little bit I've noticed about 2 weeks now those two spots are little on the grey/white side I don't know if I should add prima fix or not. My boyfriend had just noticed three of his scales are missing so he is a little more of stress coat before he left for work.

So now I just get home from work go to feed my fish and only noticed the red cap oranda I admittedly look around considering my filter is black sometimes the black moor camouflage in and I noticed the filter is against the wall and the black moor is in the corner so I bang on the tank seconds later I noticed him Swim from being upside down and he swims away quick almost in disarray swims really quick from the bottom as the red cap oranda starts p pushing him in the tail almost as if she might have not seen him for a while. Which got me nervous it took him about 15 20 seconds before he came up to the top to eat he swimming around fine right now but I'm a just a little nervous. Should I do a water change and add prima fix or just the stress coat what do you think sorry for such a long message I really hope you can help me

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Old 10-12-2014, 02:44 AM   #2
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Hi Bitner. It is possible the pleco attacked your blackmoor. This is one of the reasons people do not usually keep goldfish with plecos, as well as having different environment requirements plecos have been known to eat the slimecoat of goldfish. I would also check your parameters, in particular temperature, pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Have a look at the API test kit which can be picked up fairly cheaply.
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Old 10-12-2014, 02:48 AM   #3
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Hello mitch0!! I don't know how to post new thread on my nexus 7. I'm so sorry !! ... I only had the pleco for 3 days. He's been gone a month now but the black moor hasn't been the same since ...my pH is at 6.2-6.4 but it was always that low, & I had read online saying if your fish has been used to a low pH no need to make it higher. But I have noticed my alkalinity has been low. Not sure what that is. Or how to make it higher.

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Old 10-12-2014, 03:15 AM   #4
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Thank you for replacing this here. Hope someone can help. Thank you for all of yours.

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Old 10-12-2014, 03:32 AM   #5
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No problem, and I PM'd you the info for the links for the posting info so that should help.
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Old 10-12-2014, 08:16 AM   #6
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If it was a common pleco it probably chewed up the moor. The only pleco I would ever trust with fancy goldfish is a bristlenose, I have never had them bother one.

More and bigger water changes and some salt in the water should help. Feed well with good food and keep the water quality up and it should turn around.

I usually don't mess with pH/KH at all but if you want to try it I would put crushed coral in a filter bag in the filter (just like carbon). If the other corrections don't fix things this would be worth trying.
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Old 10-12-2014, 09:56 AM   #7
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Was on the wrong thread I think. Copied response across:

Hi, did he recover from the pleco attack (my neighbor had same problems) or had worsening problems ever since?



Also have you tested the water for ph, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates plus temp? Ideally with liquid based test kit, not cardboard strips.



I'd do the water change, try the stress coat and pimafix (well mixed in change water so he doesn't get a chemical cloud) and see if that nudges him out of it. This is just for light infections but it does sound if something going on. Water parameters are first thing to check. Also did you ended up testing the tap water (straight away and also after 24hrs in an open bottle so it de-gasses and you get true ph).



Also don't feed for a day. What are you feeding at the moment? Is there any bloating or anything that would cause him to be rolled over?



Last one is would you have a pic of the two spots? Are they a film like an infection or just scale change.
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Old 10-13-2014, 01:00 AM   #8
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Those are the best photos I can get of the black moor it is very hard to catch him still. I have not tested liquid test strip only the cardboard ones. I have yet to purchase the liquid ones. But can you notice how he stays on the top with just the brim of his fin and the top of his eyes sticking out of the water and that's basically where it is white. I had just saw on another thread that someone's pleco cut came out of the water and they said his slime coat had dried off so do you think maybe it's just his slime coat coming off since he's always out of the water. Well just his top half. He has never done that the whole three months I have him prior the pleco. But since I had the pleco for 3 days and he whined up Hurting bitner (blackmoor)getting that wound, that I got to heal

Then I had to give a way the pleco...bitner has just not been his happy swimming go lucky.

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Old 10-13-2014, 01:02 AM   #9
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Now before I put slime coat and prima fix should I do a water change or not I had done a water change about 4 days ago. & I noticed the pH was that a 6.2 but like I said previously it has always been that low alkalinity I have noticed got lower from normally

Thank you so much

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Old 10-13-2014, 02:58 AM   #10
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Water change first.

Did you get to get the water tested?
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Old 10-13-2014, 07:24 AM   #11
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Use liquid test kits, throw away the test strips they are pointless.

Water change every day, add salt, feed the best food possible.
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Old 10-13-2014, 12:24 PM   #12
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I'm feeding regular pellets ... I had something else they are these red grain like food. But it said to only feed as a treat...what is the best food possible for a black moor and red cap oranda ??

And even treating with primafix am I changing everyday? And add stress coat

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Old 10-13-2014, 08:45 PM   #13
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My fancy goldfish get New Life Spectrum, Hikari Lionhead, Saki-Hikari Fancy Goldfish, Cobalt Fancy Goldfish, New Era Fancy Goldfish, New Era Algae Pellets, and dried seaweed (the same stuff you give tangs).

Water changes are the best thing you can ever do for your fish (in addition to the best food possible). Yes, you need to dose dehclorinator every time and if you are adding medications and salt (definitely salt for goldfish) then you need to dose those for the size of the water change every time. Stress Coat is not a medication, it is really just a dechlorinator.
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Old 10-13-2014, 11:58 PM   #14
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Thank you pro aquarist. I just had bought the aquarium salt today. So when I do a water change add the stress coat and the right amount of salt into the tank on top of the Prima fix or just the salt. I read on the back it said the salt can also treat diseases in a fish

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Old 10-14-2014, 12:04 AM   #15
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Once My black moor is better I have a 20 gallon long tank, with my black moor and one red cap oranda. Is it okay if I happen to ever buy one more fancy goldfish.

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Old 10-14-2014, 07:17 AM   #16
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A 20long is pretty small for goldfish, especially two. I focus more on water quality than tank volume but there is still a minimum. If you take really good care of the water (big weekly water changes) then you may be able to have the two, but even that isn't suggested.

What size tank is it in now? In general I don't recommend hospital tanks because they are usually smaller, the water quality is worse, and they cause more stress (which promotes the problem you started with). In most cases taking care of the hospital tank is a better option.

Yes, every water change add dechlorinator (stress coat), salt for the amount of water changed (if you change ten gallons add salt for ten gallons), and if you are doing any meds (PimaFix) add that too.
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Old 10-14-2014, 07:20 AM   #17
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They both currently live in the 20 long ... I change water 30% weekly and every 2 or 3 changes I'll do 50%... And I change new filter every time.

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Old 10-14-2014, 07:24 AM   #18
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I've had them both for about 5..6 months. The black moor few weeks prior the redcap. I noticed the red cap doubled in her size since I got her 2 months back, so they both are close to same size. Don't really notice the black moor getting bigger, unless its hard to tell since the redcap oranda is growing.


Silly question, but is it possible the black moor isn't swimming around as much because the red cap is now same size as the moor & maybe now the red cap is the superior one??

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Old 10-14-2014, 09:20 AM   #19
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It's been a mad rush at work and this strikes me as a water chemistry and feeding problem rather than infection. I don't know how much the black moor was "roughed up" by the pleco but a healthy fish should of recovered. So this is what I would do.

1> Test-kit:- Buy a liquid-based test kit like api master test kit. Critical! We simply don't know what you tank or tap water chemistry is. Maybe your tap water is high in ammonia - has happened before.

2> Filters - oversize your filters or better yet have two. Are you causing a mini-cycle by changing the filter cartridges? Again we don't know. Often I see water chemistry problems and filters (especially HOB's) linked.

3> PH - strikes me as on the low side. I would test what tap ph baseline is (straight from tap and after standing for 24hrs to degas) and if below 7, I would add crashed coral to the filter or in a bag under the filter outflow. That's a pretty natural and slow/safe way to keep ph above 7.

4> Feeding - try adding vegies and pre-soak the food (which should be good quality). Research feeding. We simply have to get him eating better so he can swim more naturally and get completely under the surface/not roll over. The salt, pimafix, stress-coat, etc is all just stop-gap stuff to help him and not a long-term solution.

5> Even if space permitted, I wouldn't buy another fish until this is sorted. A healthy black moor should be able to hold his ground. Another fish will just add extra stress imo at the moment.

6> Assuming your tap water isn't very low ph or has other problems like high nitrates, extra water changes will help freshen the water until he improves. To me, your pwc sounds good.

Water chemistry & filtration plus feeding program - this imo I would investigate.
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Old 10-14-2014, 10:38 AM   #20
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After the pleco head hurt the black more I got rid of pleco... and (bitner) wind up getting better within a day or two literally the second pleco came out of the tank within minutes Blackmoor was swimming around fine for a good 2-3 weeks and since after few weeks he's kind of little slow swimming not happy go lucky that he used to be. Once I leave the tap water out for 24 hours and if it shows pH levels are above 7 or at 7 should I not even add Stress Coat?

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