Black Moor with chronic problems.

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My Fish Babies.

Aquarium Advice Activist
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Messages
176
Location
Indianapolis, Indiana
1~What type of fish is afflicted?
Male Black Moor. I am about 98% sure it is swim bladder issues. He has been struggling with this for over a year now. Its not to the point where he is upside down yet although he has done this a few times for an hour or so at a time. He more waddles then swims any more. Will float in the corner of the tank always after eating.
2~What are your tank parameters (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, temp, pH)? Please give exact values.
I use test strips right now all seems to check out good even at my LPS.
3~ How large is the tank? How long has the tank been set up?
It is a 30 gallon set up for two years now.
4~What type of filtration are you using? Please give the name and number (i.e. Fluval 304) and amount of gph if known.
I am running a Marineland Penguin Bio Wheel 200
5~How many fish are in the tank? What kinds of fish are they and what are their current sizes?
His tank mates are another female Black Moor and a male telescope.
6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel? How often do you do this? How much water do you remove at a time?
I do a 50% waterchange with a vacuum every Monday. I treat with prime and add aquarium salt with each change I sometimes add stress coat when I think I have taken out too much water.
7~How long have you had the fish? If the fish is new, how did you acclimate it/them?
I have had all three for about 4 years.
8~Have you added anything new to the tank--decor, new dechlorinator, new substrate, etc.?
NO
9~What kind of food have you been feeding your fish, have you changed their diet recently?
Omega one sinking pellets and mysis frozen shrimp alternating. I also feed them peas at least three times a month.

MORE BACKGROUND INFO..... His name is "BIGGIE" he and his original tank mate a smaller female Black moor started out life with me in a 15 gallon. He always seemed a bit slower to me I always attributed it to his size. Within six months I moved then to the 30 gallon and added the telescope. (I was still leaning and still am) He damaged one of his eyes that first week in the new tank because he kept trying to swim behind the filter wand. The smaller two would do this on occasion its the small amount of space between the glass and where the arm of the filter rests in the tank. I blocked with a plant which prevented this. So one of his eyes is damaged and the other is fine. Three weeks into the new tank he is the only one of the three to come down with ick. The smaller moor started to as well but salt treatments and PWC cured them. He's always had issues swimming very awkward and clumsy. I have been battling swim bladder issues with him for about a year now. I will fast them for about three days and feed a diet of peas to them for about three days as soon as I go to the reg diet Biggie shows the same symptoms floating in the corner not being able to swim to the bottom. This will last for hours. I feed them in the evening by morning he seems to be able to move better. This week he began to show the signs of fin rot. I am sure I caught it early. I did a 90% WC salt and stress coat and have been doing 50% changes every other day his tail is looking better much better. The other moor and telescope continue to be healthy. I am moving them all to a 55 gallon soon I worry about him being able to take the stress of the move he is so fragile it seems. Will I ever be able to fix his swim bladder issues? I am doing everything I am supposed to be doing or at least following all the advice I am reading here. I love them all dearly but I am frustrated with how easily Biggie seems to fall apart.
 
Hi! Thanks for all the great info! I am glad you are upgrading their home as well! Once you are past the fin rot issue, I work on removing the aq salt from the tank. Long term use of this can lead to greater problems with goldies (metabolic, endocrine & kidney damage). The one thing you didnt mention was your water parameters. Although, I am sure this tank is cycled, nitrate issues can further aggravate sb issues so make sure you stay on top of your water changes.

As you are seeing an increase in sb related issues related to food, I would start with addressing their diet. Switch to a quality goldfish sinking pellet (such as Hikari) and add daily plain, cooked veggies to their diet. Feed only a few small meals over the course of a day rather than 1 or 2 big meals. If this does not help, continue feeding daily veggies & consider switching to a homemade gel food for them instead. Theres lots of good recipes online (check out The Goldfish Keepers forum, Aquapuppies forum & The GAB's site- goldfish & aquarium board) as well as on U-tube for how-to videos. Then, stick to the gel food & daily veggies. Continue to offer fresh protiens (mysis shrimp, brine shrimp, bloodworms, etc) as these are the least likely to cause food-related problems.

Unfortunately, even with these positive changes, it may not be enough. Goldfish are a genetic mutation man has capitalized upon & created through selective breeding. Swim bladder are issues are a chronic problem with goldies due to their flawed physical makeup & design. You may see an increase in this behavior when you move Biggie to the bigger tank due to the increased pressure from the deeper water. I unfortunately have a moor that suffers from this as well.
 
Thank you jlk. You seem to very knowledgeable on goldfish and I like that. I wasn't aware of the issues with salt in their tank. I usually use it when something medically arises with them it seems to be a least intrusive cure all. So a silly question about veggies. If I feed them broccoli or spinach do I just blanch it first and let it sink into the tank? How do you feel about oranges? I use to put a slice in their tank every once in a while and the seemed to love it. I am going to look up gel food wasn't aware of this.Also I was wondering if my 55 gallon would support one more fancy? Total stock would be two black moors one telescope and I was considering adding a calico telescope. So that would put me at four fancies in a 55 gallon. Good? or Bad?
 
I LOVE my goldies! Daily veggies needed to be cooked- i use the steamable bags of generic veggies. Throw them in the micro & then put in a tupperware container-they last almost a week. Cook them a bit longer than suggested on the bag. Broccoli florets, cauliflower, zucchini, spinach, deshelled peas, aspargus heads, red & green peppers, carrots, turnip greens, etc are all good veggies- for the harder ones, i use a garlic press to smoosh them into tiny bits. The broccoli heads (quarter-sized flowers) can be thrown in whole. Just avoid starchy (potatoes, corn etc) & spicy stuff. Remove any uneaten fruits or veggies after 24hrs & replace.

Fruits are fine- just limit them to a few times a week because they are high in sugars. My guys love pieces of watermelon & tangerine segments (packed in juice not syrup) but they get other fruits as well. Grape bits (no skins), strawberries, soft bits of apples or pears, rasberries, etc. Just make sure the fruit is soft enough to tear or is in little bits.

Yes, you can manage with 4 fancies in a 55g no problem but just make sure you stay on top of your water changes & have heavy filtration (min 600gph). The nitrates will likely rise pretty quickly so big water changes 2x a week may be a better option. Hope this helps! Dont hesitate to ask any questions! :)
 
@ butterfly Koi
I am so sorry to hear about your fish. I noticed the fin rot on mine friday night. One spot was enflamed red around the edges and he had white tips on some other edges of his tail. I have been doing 80% water changes and treating with salt every other day. It definitely hasn't progressed any further but it still is red in one of the split areas. I picked up some prima fix today and a API liquid test. all my results are within the norm. I will start the prima fix in a few days if I see no other healing progress. Good luck with Manny as well. BTW jlk is awesome and very in tune with fancies I am glad she is on AA.
 
Thank You!

I hope you have some success. Manny loved the home-made Gelatin food when I made it for him. I put spinach, broccoli and peas in it. I place all the cooked veggies in my food chopper and pulvarize them to ensure they are easy for him to eat. Manny also loves just the deshelled peas, so I am sure you guys/gals would as well.

Also, Manny always had a very bloated stomach, but within weeks of putting him in his new tank he was looking very slim and trim. I don't know if its due to better water conditions or some other factor, but it was rather miraculous. So perhaps just getting him in a bigger home will help some. (I am no expert though.)

Good Luck!
 
Just wanted to throw this out here.... How can I tell if Biggies fin rot is doing better. It doesn't look any worse but not necessarily better. I started primafix yesterday the enflamed red around the affected area is no longer red but has turned white is this a good sign? Doing 80 to 90% water changes every other day with salt. also tank is on the third day of Jungle anti bacterial food.
 
Keep up the good work keeping the water healthy! Its a positive sign that theres no more redness (inflamation). What you will need to watch for is progression of the white areas- if there is, then the fin rot is spreading & you will need to add an antibiotic to the water. What should happen over the next few weeks is you should see the white areas diminishing & growing out. They may even look translucent for a period of time. Watching daily, it may appear like nothing is happening- if you can get a clear pic right now, you can compare it every week (or every few days) to how he looks to determine if theres changes or improvements. Hope this helps!
 
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I just took this pic this morning. This is what I am still seeing. Not the greatest pic but I think the affected areas can be seen. Is this looking good? I am on day six of salt treatment and day four of melafix. I am concerned that the edges are still white. I doesn't appear to be growing any. Original area was once very red and enflamed. I may be over reacting and reading too much just worried still overall.
 
From this pic, I honestly can only see one white area on the left side of the pic. Are all of his fins edged in white?
 
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I tried to enhance this pic a bit. Its the circled area. Its sort of a horse shoe chunk missing from his tail edges around use to be red now are white there is also a split next to it but you cant see it in the pic. The Gold Telescope I think you were talking about is fine he has always been translucent around the edges of his tail. Biggie is acting fine and eating. I just am probably worried over nothing.
 
I would probably keep up what you are doing and monitor him if he is behaving normal and swimming, and not noticably getting worse.
 
Thanks for the close-up! I can see the chunk missing as well as the white areas. Are you still feeding a medicated food? If so, what type/brand?
 
Ok! Keep up with the med food & the salt. I want you to start cleaning the white edges & the spots with hydrogen peroxide 1x a day. Use q-tips or cotton balls, set some peroxide aside in cup, & quickly remove him in a damp towel (wet with tank water) & dab the spots with peroxide & return him to the tank. Alternately, you may be able to find a product called Bio-Bandage (made by Pond Solutions) in your lfs or online and you can treat with this product instead. Keep us posted!
 
Dont worry! It takes less than 10secs to do- remove, dab peroxide & return the fish. It should help without having to resort to adding a med to the tank. :)
 
OMG That was probably the most traumatic thing I have ever done. (Having a glass of wine now). All his fins sorta just clamped together when out of the water. I am pretty sure I hit the affected area may have hit a few others as well. He sort of went limp when I put him back into the water floated to the bottom. I nudged him a few times and he began to swim again. Poor little fellow.
 
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