Dead fishies aren't much fun!

[hsherman1986]

Alright, so here are the specs before I go into what is going wrong. It is a 55g trop. community. It is med/heavily planted. Gravel substrate, no driftwood or anything. Running 2 whisper 30 60 HOB, a guardian heater that came with the tank, temp is stable at 84*. Tank has been set up since the beginning of Feb., finished the cycle at the end of feb, has had fish gradually added to it since it finished cycling.

Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 40 i think (the test is so hard to read when the result is more than 20, either way it is time for a water change. One is scheduled for tonight)
PH: 7.0
Ammonia: 0

Ok, about a week ago, we finished battling a case of ich, hence why the temp is so high. We have been gradualy turning it down until we get to 78*. We used the heat and salt method (seemed better for our loaches and ottos). No casualties through treatment.

tankmates are as follows:

during ich treatment- 10 zebra danios, 10 neon tetras, 6 black neon tetras, 5 lemon tetras, 5 silver hatchetfish, 4 harlequin rasboras, 3 clown loaches, 3 ottos, and 8 asst. platies.

now- 9 neon tetras, 9 black neons, 4 lemon tetras, 5 silver hatchetfish, 3 harlequin rasboras, 2 clown loaches, 2 possibly only 1 otto (can't find the second one), and 6 platies.

after a few casualties, i made an assumption that was probably wrong, and took back a territorial clown loach. Well, that didn't fix my problem. When I took him back, I bought a single neon tetra to replace the dead one, and bought four black neons to take that school up to ten. Those are the only additions since the end of the ich treatment. The danios got moved to their own tank btw.

since taking the loach back and adding the newbs, I found a black neon floating by the filter (couldn't tell if it was one of the new ones, or one of the ones I had prior to ich treatment), a neon tetra stuck to the filter (it was not the new one, it was a preexhisting neon), and stood back and watched an otto die (that was so sad to watch, but it was too late to do anything about it). All three of these deaths either happened today, or were discovered by me today.

Now, what the hell is going on here!? I have had 1 lemon tetra, 1 harlequin rasbora, 2 neons, 1 black neon, 1 maybe 2 ottos, and 2 platies die in the past week!!! Any ideas are welcome, I don't want to loose anymore fish!

 

[Zagz]

What kind of test kit are you using? And how old is it? The ich may be the culprit, I would keep the heat up at 86 for a week more, usually good idea to keep the heat up for 2 weeks after the last spot is gone.

 

[hsherman1986]

i am using the ap freashwater liquid kit. It is fairly new, just bought it about a week before the ich breakout. I will turn the heat back up, should I put a little more salt back in the tank (have done a couple water changes since the last spot was seen)?

and an update: just searched through the tank, and did not find the third otto, dead or alive. So until I see it again, I only have one otto. Also, I found another black neon body stuck behind a rock, so take that number down to 8 for survivors and up to two for casualties (that is the fourth fish I have had to flush today!)

 

[hsherman1986]

anybody have any other ideas? I have flushed three fish today, and have my newest loach bagged up (only bought him a week ago). I am also missing two black neons, and was missing a neon until we did a water change.

If anyone has any ideas, all I can come up with is either the sale in the tank from treating the ich, or the ick itself.

We have also had quite a few of our babies die...not cool!

 

[Menagerie]

Tank has been set up since the beginning of Feb., finished the cycle at the end of feb, has had fish gradually added to it since it finished cycling.

This tank is relatively new; I don't consider a tank to be established until 6 months of no water quality issues.

If anyone has any ideas, all I can come up with is either the sale in the tank from treating the ich, or the ick itself.

Salt?

I see a couple of problems. One, you are not quarantining your new fish (in the future, don’t risk your whole population of fish—QT!!). Second, the tank may not be established well enough for the neons’ and ottos’ liking. They are not hardy fish. Since none of the fish died during treatment, the treatment of salt and heat is not the problem. Most likely, the ich is still there. It may be in the gills and that’s why you don’t see it. How long did you keep the treatment last time? I’m not there and have no way of knowing, but I suggest going through the treatment again—both salt and heat for a much longer period of time.

 

[hsherman1986]

Yes, i meant to type salt. I have not had any water quality issues since it finished cycling, except for a small ammonia spike from rotting bodies in the tank.

I have bought a ten gallon that is being cycled right now for use as a qt for all new fish (yes, I learned my lesson)

the neons were the second group of fish added to the tank. First being the danios. I have had them since the first week of march (danios cycled the tank, I didn't know any better at that time. I knew the tank needed to be cycled, did not know about fishless cycling) and have not had any problems with them. So I think it was ok for the neons, not too sure about the ottos. They were doing really well though until the ick came into the tank. They all were eating well, very active, no problems. Had them since the end of march, with no problems.

It was not until we thought the ich was gone that we started loosing fish. I really think it was the ich. Will someone please remind me what the proper dose of salt is (keeping in mind that I have scaleless fish in my tank)?

my newest clown loach died yesterday, and I flushed another neon today. I will agree that the neons are not doing well through this battle...

 

[Zagz]

I can't offer you any salt advice, I had terrible success with salt and scaleless fish. 24 hours after I added the salt I lost my clown loaches. I would definately keep the heat up for a minimum of 2 weeks. I had an ich treatment that took 7 weeks on my 125. The members here helped me through it. There are some members here who have had success with salt and scaleless fish, I just wasn't one of them. I do agree with Menagerie that the treatment time wasn't long enough to kill the ich. Ich can be present in fish's gills and be unseen to the eye.

 

[hsherman1986]

i continued the treatment for two weeks, but I know for a fact that the ich is still there now (saw a spot on one of my black neons, and my platies have been flashing). Just got done flushing another neon, and another black neon. I am also worried about my clown loach, he hides all the time now, and when i see him, his top fin is clamped down to his body, and he just lazily swims around...i hope he makes it through this

 

[Zagz]

What is your current temp? Like I said, ich can take a lot longer than 2 weeks. Honestly mine took 7 weeks to run a full course. Get the temp back up as soon as possible. 1 degree every 6 hours as this is sort of an emergency.

 

[hsherman1986]

87* it was at 84* this morning (i say morning, it was at that at 1 this afternoon)

no deaths while i was at work, we will see tomorrow...

 

[Zagz]

Good luck I feel your pain and frustration. I have been there.