My fish are all dying!

[CaptainPanda]

Hello all!

I'm new to this site and was hoping someone may be able to help me out.
So I've had a 10 gallon for about six months, and with the exception of losing a couple fish early on from rushing the nitrogen cycle, and a small snail infestation, everything has been fine. I had a medium sized Amazon Sword, and some Apononogeton, and 6 Neon Tetras. I lost two of the tetras, but the last 4 have been surviving nicely for the last 3 months.
So this last week, i decided I wanted to add a few more fish. I went a little overboard, and added 5 more Neons and 2 otos. I introduced them slowly and I also purchased a heater, as the water temp has been dropping to about 72 with winter approaching. The next day, one of the otos was acting very sluggish. I looked it over and couldn't see anything wrong with it, but withing about an hour, it was dead. I removed him from the tank, and looked over the rest of the fish. They all looked good. I didn't have any test strips left (just ran out) and was planning to pick more up the next day to check the levels. I did a partial water change just to be safe. The next day, I lost the other oto, and two of the tetras, including one of my originals! I picked up the test strips and check the levels, and everything looked great. There was no ammonia or nitrite, and the nitrate level was a little high, but not into danger range.
I have had a problem recently with algae, and so I did a deep clean of the tank, including changing the substrate to a smaller diameter(for aesthetic reasons) and adding a couple plants. I lost another tetra in the holding tank. I changed most of the water, tested it, let it sit for a couple hours, then added my remaining fish back to the tank. Immediately, they seemed to be very energetic, and ate very enthusiastically. I tested the water again this morning and everything looked good, but my wife just told me that two more of the tetras died.
So now I am down to 3 tetras, two of the originals and one of the new ones.
I'm sorry for being so long winded, but I am fairly new at the aquarium scene(shouldn't have started with a 10 gallon i discovered) and wanted to make sure I covered everything. I was hoping someone may be able to shed some light on the subject, because I am stumped. Thanks.

 

[Derekkaine]

Not sure

 

[Gboy66]

Did they all drink the koolaid

What? This doesnt help!

Ok, captain panda right? Is the tank cycled? This is when you add an ammonia source and the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate go through a process called cycling. Once the ammonia and nitrite is at zero, and the nitrate is less than 20, your tank is cycled! I realize its been set up for awhile, bit it still might not have been cycled. Also, do you add dechlorinater to your tap water during a water change?

 

[jpchin]

when you changed out all the substate for something new you removed most of your beneficial bacteria i'm afraid. you should switch to liquid tests (api) for more accurate test results. i think you might have an ammonia spike or a mini cycle but it's hard to know for sure if you are using testing strips. :-(

 

[CaptainPanda]

Thank you for the replies.
The tank did go through the cycling period right after I first set it up. Also, I have added a dechlorinater to the water. I do realize that the substrate change is going to cause another cycle, but it was the last thing I could think of. I am intending to switch to liquid tests, soon, just a matter of getting the kit.

 

[librarygirl]

I'm not sure changing substrate would cause massive deaths like that. It's possible I guess but not very likely, plus the fish seemed to have started dying before the substrate change, right?

Otos are very sensitive fish and are very hard to feed if there isn't enough of the right kind of algae in the tank. The fact that yours died so soon after purchase though is a bit of a mystery. Neons are also known to carry Neon Tetra Disease which can wipe out a school of Neons fairly quickly but not sure if this is your issue either. Have you noticed them looking odd, or acting differently before they died?

The first thing to do as suggested above is get a good liquid test kit to make sure your readings are accurate and the parameters in the tank are OK. I still doubt the toxins would have risen so high so quickly to kill off that many fish so fast.

It's possible you got some bad batches of fish from the LFS assuming you purchased them all from the same place and whatever they had could have spread to your fish but without more info it's hard to say.

Without further info I'd say to get a better test kit, make sure your parameters stay stable and keep up with your weekly water changes and watch the remaining fish. If after 2-3 weeks they are stable I'd try adding more Neons but try to get them from a different LFS if possible.

 

[CatmanDru]

Welcome to AA.

Untill some of the more knowledgable members chime in, here's a little input from me. First of all, posters here agree that test strips are worthless and provide unreliable, meaningless results. They say you might as well not test at all. So my point is to applaud and support your decision to buy a liquid test kit (API Master Test Kit is most recommended), and also to emphasize that you really have no idea about the level of the toxins of ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate in your tank. Given your recent escalating fish deaths it's reasonable to assume those levels of ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate may be lethal in your tank right now.

Also your water change seemed to improve the condition of your fish: "I changed most of the water, tested it, let it sit for a couple hours, then added my remaining fish back to the tank. Immediately, they seemed to be very energetic, and ate very enthusiastically." More water changes might improve their condition to the point where they stop dying on you.

Therefore, in my opinion, it would be a good idea to do a 50% PWC (Partial Water Change) now. Then 4 (if at all possible) to 12 hours later do another 50% PWC. Do two 50% PWC each day, morning and evening, for two to three days. Then one 50% PWC a day untill you actually buy your API Master Test Kit and can test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate and use those test results to determine your future PWCs.

 

[jpchin]

until you get your kit if i were you i would do a water change of about 25% everyday and use seachem prime as your water conditioner. it can keep ammonia from affecting your fish for approximately 24-36 hours or in other words it will keep your tank safe until you do the next water change which of course should be everyday until your numbers are all in the proper limits. also i wouldn't add any fish until your tank is stable for a few weeks and then add only a few at a time and test to make sure your bacteria can handle the extra fish. good luck.

 

[jpchin]

i agree with catman dru. 50% is even better. when you get your liquid test kit get some seachem prime if you can.

 

[CatmanDru]

Also this paragraph is in the sticky post of the Unhealthy Fish section and answering the questions will help others to help you. You can copy-paste it and add your answers.

Answer these Qs to ensure we have as much information as possible about your ailing fish and its environment:

1~What type of fish is afflicted? In addition, please describe what is wrong with the fish to the best of your ability (i.e. cotton like growth, bloated, etc.).
2~What are your tank parameters (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, temp, pH)? Please give exact values.
3~ How large is the tank? How long has the tank been set up?
4~What type of filtration are you using? Please give the name and number (i.e. Fluval 304) and amount of gph if known.
5~How many fish are in the tank? What kinds of fish are they and what are their current sizes?
6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel? How often do you do this? How much water do you remove at a time?
7~How long have you had the fish? If the fish is new, how did you acclimate it/them?
8~Have you added anything new to the tank--decor, new dechlorinator, new substrate, etc.?
9~What kind of food have you been feeding your fish, have you changed their diet recently?

 

[ejaramillo01]

I don't suggest to keep doing water changes until you test the water with the liquid test. We trend to over-react before taking data.
Ottos are highly sensitive, an he massive water changes will stress them.

Saying so, if you test with the liquid master kit, and you get ammonia or nitrites readings, then proceed as suggested above.
Just my opinion here.

 

[Mumma.of.two]

I don't suggest to keep doing water changes until you test the water with the liquid test. We trend to over-react before taking data.
Ottos are highly sensitive, an he massive water changes will stress them.

Saying so, if you test with the liquid master kit, and you get ammonia or nitrites readings, then proceed as suggested above.
Just my opinion here.

IMO the more PWC the better. If the 'normal' in your tank is clean fresh water, then adding more clean water from the same source will not change your water conditions.

 

[Derekkaine]

What does PWC stand for

 

[Cornstar]

What does PWC stand for

Pwc stands for percent water change. That is what I believe.

 

[Derekkaine]

Thx . . . .

 

[QuietPlotter]

Partial Water Change

 

[Derekkaine]

Lol thanks

 

[CaptainPanda]

Just a quick update for all who have offered advice.
So I did that tank overhaul, and have been doing partial water changes everyday since. The four tetras I have remaining are doing great, looking energetic and happy. I will continue to do PWCs until I can get the liquid test kit, as those test strips are obviously not cutting it. I'm not sure whether the ammonia spiked and the test strips didn't pick it up, or whether those fish I got brought something with them. Either way, I think we are in the clear for now. I'm going to monitor them for a couple more weeks, then add more tetras, slowly, maybe one or two at a time.
Thank you everyone for your help!
BTW, I have one other question. I have a bubble curtain in the back of the tank, and when I turn it on, the fish swim like their lives depend on it. I don't want them to tire out, but I want to keep my tank oxygenated. Am I worrying too much, or should I get a smaller airstone and an adjustable adapter for my airline?

 

[QuietPlotter]

Worrying too much

 

[QuietPlotter]

IMO, as long as the filter ripples the water up, you're fine. If you really needed it, you could use a powerhead, bubbles are more for show.