please help. flaps is sick.

[harrisjam]

Hi,
Im so worried about my wee boy. he's not well and I dont know what to do.

Firstly, the symptoms: he's very sluggish. he's been sitting low in the tank for weeks now and he seems to move very little. He still eats his food (flake food), but then settles afterwards and barely moves at all.

Having done some research, I'm beginning to realise all the mistakes Ive been making. I have never fed him anything except flake food - I suspect Ive been overfeeding him for years (he's about 4 years old) - I've been probably changing too much water at a time, (sometimes up to 75%) - I just recently bought new ornaments and new gravel (i think I put in gravel that is far too small) and I changed it all at once, (threw out all the old gravel and replaced it with new). Since I did that, there seems to be a build up of clear(ish) slime in the tank, around the filter and the ornaments. I've been changing 25% of the water between 1 and 3 times a week to try and clean it but it keeps coming back.

Ive tried using a revitalisng tonic a few times but its not having much effect. Im considering buying a bigger tank, new filter, new gravel etc and transferring him, but I dont want to make him sicker.

Please help. Im so worried about flaps. He's like my best friend. Please please please help.

Thankyou.
Jamie from Scotland

 

[bluerose]

A few questions for you:

What kind of fish is he? What size tank? Do you do water tests for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate? Do you use any additives like aquarium salt? How did you prepare the new ornaments and gravel for the tank?

Water changes are GOOD and will help with almost any disease as long as you're using water that's of similar pH and temperature and has been treated for chlorine.

The more info you can give us the better.

 

[JohnPaul]

We need as many specifics as possible:

• size of the tank (volume is what is most important here--how many gallons or liters?)
• what kind of fish is it? Common name might be good enough, if you know the scientific name that would help even more
• how large (physically) is your fish? a rough estimate will do
• when you do a water change, do you use tap water? Do you treat it with anything before you put it in the tank? (If so, what is the specific name of the treatment you use?)
• are you careful to be sure the temperature of the new water you put in matches (within a couple degrees) the temperature of the water in the tank itself?
• speaking of that, what temperature DO you keep the tank at?
• how often do you feed, how much at a time, and what is the name of the food(s) you use?
• this is crucial...do you monitor any of your tank chemical parameters at all? The most relevant for us are pH, ammonia (NH3), nitrite (NO2), and nitrate (NO3)
• other than sluggish, are there any other symptoms? Does he look bloated in the stomach? Any funny growths on his body, or his fins? When he does swim, does he seem to do "ok" or is he extra wobbly, or struggle to keep himself upright, etc?

The more info you can give us, the more likely it is we can figure out how to help you. If there is a clear problem, we can advise you how to solve it. And if there is not a clear problem, it could just be a matter of old age. When fish start approaching their "elderly" years, many of them tend to slow down and get more lethargic...just like people. So it could just be that. But we need as much info as possible in order to be able to tell.

 

[harrisjam]

Details,

Im estimated the tank size is about 20 litres.
Flaps is like a goldfish, but different. He is fatter, with a curved back, no fin on top of his body. someone once said he might be a lionhead, but i have never know exactly. He has grown over the past years and is now about 7-10 cm long.
I do not heat the tank. It is at room temp. I live in scotland bnut its summertime now and its not too cold. I always let new water settle for an hours or so before adding it to the tank, to allow it to get to room temp.
I have never checked for any chemicals or other things in the water, and Im not sure how to do this.
I have not added any salt or anything, except for the revitalising tonic over the last few days, and a few times in the past.
I did nothing to prepare the new gravel (or ornaments) except rinsing it all a little in clean water.
I feed him once aday, with a small sprinkle of goldfish flake food. (aquarian advanced nutrition), but im not sure how much is too much.
I treat new tap water with a safe water treatment that is supposed to get rid of harmfuil things in the water. I just threw out the old bottle so I dont remember the name of it but I have just added 'tetre aqua safe' to the most recent 40% water change.
I cant see any other obvious symptoms. he lost all his gold colour many years ago and is now mostly white, but he generally seems ok. just sits still a lot. usually swims around when I go up to the tank, or i feed him, but settles very quickly and looks very sluggish.

I hope this helps. I am realising that there are a lot of mistakes I have been making, but Im eager to save him, and will do literally anything I can.

Thankyou so much for helping. I really appreciate it.
Jamie.

 

[dkpate]

I would do daily water changes of 25-50% and see if he perks up. Make sure the new water temp is as close as possible to the temp in the tank.

 

[JohnPaul]

Overall it sounds like most of what you are doing is pretty good. Tetra AquaSafe is a fine water treatment, keep on using that to treat all the water before you put it into your tank. Your feeding schedule seems good, a lot of goldfish websites actually suggest a couple of feedings per day--but only as much as the fish can consume in a few minutes. Uneaten food should never be left in the tank, if there is food the goldfish hasn't eaten in a few minutes, then the fish isn't hungry which means you are feeding too much.

Knowing your water parameters is the most important thing. You measure them by using any one of various brands of test kits out there. Aquarium Pharmaceuticals (API) makes a master test kit. Other companies do as well. It doesn't matter which one you choose, as long as you get one that can measure ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Those are the "big three." Anything that can't measure all 3 of those isn't worth getting. And also pH is pretty important also. So you can either buy one master kit that can measure all of those, or buy individual kits for them. Try to avoid paper test strips, as they have a reputation for being terribly inaccurate. Get the liquid kits, which provide various little bottles of test chemicals and some small glass test tubes. You take a test tube of water out of your tank/bowl, and then put in a certain number of drops of the test chemicals according to the directions, wait a few minutes (it tells you in the instructions how long), and then you compare the color of the tube against a small card provided with a color chart that gives you your readings. Any major pet store where you buy your aquarium supplies should carry such a test kit; or if you can't get one in person, then wherever in the UK you would order aquarium supplies from online would certainly carry them. They can be a bit pricey but once you buy a kit it will last you for many years. If you can get a kit and share your readings, that would help tell us whether there is a water problem or whether we have to look somewhere else.

In the short term, I would concur with dkpate's suggestion of doing ~ 25% water changes every day. Again, be sure the temperature of the new water is as close to the temperature of the tank water as possible, and make sure you treat the new water with the AquaSafe before you put it in. Good clean water is always the first step in dealing with any fish illness or problem.

Also, I didn't ask this before, but is your fish pooping like normal? Sometimes fish can get a blockage in their intestines that makes it difficult for them to poop. When that happens, you can microwave (or boil) a couple of fresh peas, then cool them off back to room temperature, pop them out of their shell/skin, and feed the insides to the fish. Fish tend to love them, and there is something about the peas that helps to clean out the fish's insides.

The only concern I would have long-term is the size of your bowl/tank. A general rule of thumb is that for an adult goldfish (or any goldfish-type species), they usually say a minimum 20 gallon aquarium, which would be ~ 75 liters. But in the short term, we first need to figure out what is going on with your fish.

 

[limojica]

harrisjam, I hope all the good advice helps flaps

 

[harrisjam]

update on flaps.

Thankyou so much for taking the time to help me.

I have just been to the pet store and invested in some of your recomendations. Firstly I have bought a new tank. Its 35 litres which is as big as I could afford but I only have the one fish and its significantly larger than his current home. I plan to follow all the directions for setting it up correctly, but Im open to any suggestions about how to deal with the gravel. I bought new gravel, which is much larger stones than the current ones (which I wrongly introduced all at once, a few weeks ago). The tank came with a filter system and also a built in light which I never had before.

I bought a bottle called Safe start (made by tetra) to help when setting up the new tank, but I noticed that it came with a bottle called 'biological aquarium supplement' made by nutrafin cycle, which I think is the same thing. I'll read the instructions before using either just to be sure.

I have also bought a good test kit and have carried out all the water tests you suggested. Here are the results: PH is at 7.5, Nitrate is at 5, Nitrite is at 0.1 and Ammonia is at 2.4
I have no idea if these reading could be the cause of his illness.

I bought a different treatment made by 'gold' called 'disease safe' which claims to "make sick goldfish better". I have just put the correct amount into the tank and am hopeful that it will make a difference.

Finally I am not sure if his pooping is normal or not. I saw him mid-poop yesterday and I was worried he might be constipated but he seems to have managed to get it out ok, as it is no longer there.

Once again, many thanks for your help.
Jamie.

 

[ilovemydragongoby]

i would say that yes it is for sure that could be the reason why your fishy friend isnt doing good...2.4amonia is incredibly high. it should be at 0 or no more than 0.25ppm nitrites should be at 0 but 0.1 isn't too bad and some nitrates are good.
what kind of test kit did you get?

i've used nutrafin cycle before and its a good. i've never used safe start but i know lots of people have used it. i personally use Prime by Seachem(i think it's by seachem) and never have a problem with it.

 

[ilovemydragongoby]

but what i would suggest is water changes water changes water changes

never do full water changes/tank cleanings because you get rid of all the beneficial bacteria that is in the tank. and then you basically start all over again.

 

[JohnPaul]

Okay Jamie, those were some important steps you took.

If your ammonia reading is actually correct, then that is almost certainly the problem. A lot of fish out there would be dead with an ammonia reading of 2.4 ppm. This is basically a "code red" situation.

First thing, don't feed him at all for the next couple of days. Fish are perfectly fine if they go without eating for a few days at a time (honestly, most can go over a week without eating and still be okay). The more they eat, the more they excrete (both solid and liquid waste), and that is the source of ammonia.

Try doing a 50% water change, and then afterwards run another ammonia test. You should get a reading roughly half as much, i.e. somewhere around 1.2. If you do, then you can be pretty confident that you are using your test kit correctly.

For the short term, you are going to need to be doing 50% water changes every day, until you can get that ammonia down to manageable levels. (Under 0.5 ppm should be your short term goal.) That is your top priority. And at the same time, you probably want to be working on setting up your new tank. If you have that new gravel for the new tank you can go ahead and rinse it off a bit and put it in the new tank, and start the filter on the tank running and begin fishless cycling that tank. There is lots of info on fishless cycling on these forums if you poke around, so I won't repeat any of it here.

You have some work ahead of you, but it will all be worth it in the end.