PLEASE HELP! Neon tetras sick? Dwarf frog died! New at aquariums!

[sings4life]

I'm new at aquariums. My mom has been helping me because we had a 10 gallon when I was little. I bought a 1.5 Gallon tank. I set it up 10 days ago and ran the filter for 3 days before I bought fish. This past tuesday, I bought 3 neon tetras and 2 danios (zebra fish) and a dwarf frog. Last night, around 6pm, my neon tetras looked like they lost their color. I turned the light on for awhile and their color returned, but my frog started acting funny. I had the dwarf frogs previously for a long time and I knew this was not normal behavior for them. He was swimming up and down in the tank and then around on the top of the tank. Then when I checked on him at 12am, he was dead at the bottom of the tank. Today I came home at 6pm and found two of my neon tetras, who had seperated themselves from the other tetra and danios, have a white cloud like substance around their bodies. One wont swim anymore and is gasping on the bottom of the tank and the other one is barely swimming. I read on another site that it sounds like neon tetra disease? And it suggested removing them from the tank so I have them in a cup and i'm going to take them back to the store tomorrow and see what they can tell me about what is wrong with them and get some water test strips. I also think i'm going to switch from pellets to flakes. They dont seem to be eating the pellets, they are just laying on the bottom of the tank. I'm really worried and this is my first time with my own tank. PLEASE HELP THIS NEWBIE!!!!!

 

[ErinMcG]

Hi! First, welcome to Aquarium Advice. There are lots of really helpful people here who will give you a lot of advice. Second, I am sorry for your loss. It is sad to lose a pet, even such a new one.

Now, here comes the part that you might not want to hear. Your fish aren't likely to make it in the current situation. You need to do some really big changes, quickly. Others with more experience will hopefully step in and make some suggestions here, but I can get you started.

1. Your aquarium is way too small. 1.5 gallons can only support a very limited amount of stock and really limited varieties. Certainly not what you had in. A good starting guideline is one gallon per inch of fish, so three neons would need a 3 gallon tank. Now, that doesn't really take into consideration how much swimming room they need. Some species need a lot of space to swim in. So, you would need to look up the kinds of fish that you want and see what tank sizes are suggested.

2. Your tank was not actually ready for fish. You will want to read about cycling a tank. There are a lot of good references on here about it, but I can't figure out how to grab the links for you on my iPad. Sorry! Go to the forum about getting started and look for the stickies there though. Essentially, fish produce waste that takes the form of ammonia. In an uncycled tank, that ammonia builds up quickly and poisons them. In a cycled tank beneficial bacteria (people call them bb in the forums) will consume the ammonia and convert it to nitrites. More beneficial bacteria will consume the nitrites and turn them into nitrates. Nitrates are the only ones that aren't toxic to your fish, though they can be if they build up too much. You can cycle a tank with fish in it and you can cycle a tank without fish. The fish less cycle is the one that many people recommend because there is less risk to the fish. Step by step instructions for both can be found on this site. Cycling takes at least a month and often up to 2 months.

3. Probably the best thing you can do for your fish right now is return them to the store. Then you can start doing some research and get yourself set up to do it in a way that will work for you and for the fish that you want to keep.

I am sorry that I can't offer anything more hopeful for the current fish. It's easy to think that keeping fish is as simple as putting them in a tank, but there is actually a lot more to it. Sadly, pet shops don't always tell you this.

Good luck!

 

[sings4life]

Thank you so much for responding quickly! I have seperated the sick ones in a cup, I dont have a seperate tank for them or anything. I'm going to the pet store tomorrow and I'm still going to have them test my water there but i'm also going to buy a liquid test kit for myself. I'm also going to switch to flake food. I think the pellets are too messy (not only in the tank but in my room! haha). I think I understand cycling now from the links you suggested. Its still going to take some time for me to learn that. My mom has been helping me with my tank and she knows alot more than me but I think cycling might be something that she forgot in the past 10 years since we had a tank.

As for the amount of fish, my tank instructions say that 3-4 tiny fish like the ones I have is the normal amount for this size. I also talked to my fish store head employees (this store specializes in fish, is mainly family run with 2 or 3 extras, and is going on 40 years with amazing ratings, service, and knowledge) and they said that the two types of fish I picked would be ok in this small tank. They also seemed very happy those first few days too. And the frog, well i dont consider him in the swimming space just because they usually dwell on the bottom anyways. i'm wondering if an algae eater would be a smart move at this point. i'll find out more tomorrow.

 

[ErinMcG]

I am glad you are heading back to get your water tested. I would skip an algae eater right now. Take your time and do your research. An algae eater needs to go into a well established tank that as been running for a long time. It needs a good supply of food and it is highly unlikely that you have any algae at this point. Plus I the almost any algae eater will outgrow your tank quickly.

Slow and steady with fish. Take your time. Learn the fundamentals and you will be able to look after fish and enjoy this hobby. Try to go too quickly or jump into things without researching first, and you open yourself up to disappointment and frustration.

 

[sings4life]

I think my only frustration right now with this is that i've NEVER heard of cycling in my life and all my family members have had a tank at some point in their lives for 10+ years and never heard of it either. My mom thinks i'm over thinking what I need to be doing for my tank. Alot of my friends with tanks (smaller than 10 gallon) said that they just clean their tanks regularly and they've always returned sick fish (they rarely have had that happen) and they just wait a few days after, clean it good, and go back to normal. And buy more fish a few weeks after to make sure it is okay. My mom thinks that maybe this cycling thing is mainly for bigger tanks, not a 1.5 gallon, but that we should be paying attention more to the water levels and such. I'm going to get the employs advice at my fishy store before I decide exactly what to do. I've gotten so much advice now from so many different people and places. They have been there for 40+ years so I know the head guy of the store will be giving me good advice unlike a common regular pet store employee. I know now that I will be using this site for secondary (and first ) opinions as I go through these first beginner struggles with a tiny tank.

 

[ErinMcG]

Well, good luck with it! Hopefully things work out for you and your fishy friends.

 

[barterking85]

Ok well loads of problems here
Sorry to lay it on you but it's how you learn

Cycling happens over time and it's essential for your fishes survival its how you keep the hobby enjoyable

First get a liquid test kit test strips are inaccurate at best and you will need one to cycle

Neons are a schooling fish and need groups of 6 same with danios and both should be in a 15/20 gallon tank danios are very active and need swimming space your tank is only suitable for shrimp or small snails

With a tank your size I would change the water every other day and don't tear the tank apart and wipe it down that's killing the bb and never use soap just get a gravel vac and siphon out water and vacuume the gravel

Couple questions do you have a heater? Can you look for a bigger tank even a used 15 gallon would work for the fish you want to keep? And it would be cheap used

Hope this helped I will follow along to answer any question you have ps I think it was ammonia build up that killed your fish not tetra disease or your frog would be ok

 

[sings4life]

I can only have less than a three gallon tank in my apartment. I find it odd that you say my tank is only suitable for snails. My tank actually says on it that its best for the tiny tetras and guppies.

The frog actually died AFTER i noticed the tetras acting funny. And both tetras had turned color, were not swimming right, and were acting very odd in the tank. One has died. The other is still alive. My third tetra is still swimming happily i my tank with the two danios. I do think that ammonia is a problem, and may have been the death of my frog. I want to get to the bottom of this problem before i lose anymore fish. Im going to find out more in the morning. Im glad that everyone is so honest with tips and opinions. It is very helpful to hear from others that currently have tanks.

My question is why would they advertise the tank on the box and in the instructions as being great for this whole list of different types of fish if its really not good for them??? I think that is very odd for them to say that in there on an aquarium that is considered to be a beginners type tank.

 

[paytertot]

I can only have less than a three gallon tank in my apartment. I find it odd that you say my tank is only suitable for snails. My tank actually says on it that its best for the tiny tetras and guppies.

The frog actually died AFTER i noticed the tetras acting funny. And both tetras had turned color, were not swimming right, and were acting very odd in the tank. One has died. The other is still alive. My third tetra is still swimming happily i my tank with the two danios. I do think that ammonia is a problem, and may have been the death of my frog. I want to get to the bottom of this problem before i lose anymore fish. Im going to find out more in the morning. Im glad that everyone is so honest with tips and opinions. It is very helpful to hear from others that currently have tanks.

My question is why would they advertise the tank on the box and in the instructions as being great for this whole list of different types of fish if its really not good for them??? I think that is very odd for them to say that in there on an aquarium that is considered to be a beginners type tank.

It's true that your tank is only suitable for shrimp or snails. I really recommend returning or rehoming the fish you have. Also, cycling a tank is CRUCIAL for fish to live. Idk why a tank would say its good for fish that it isn't, but I also don't know why many other products are advertised for things they can't do. That's just how things are.
One last thing, what is your current maintenance routine?

 

[sings4life]

I just got the tank set up 12 days ago and i just got the fish this past tuesday. My mom had a tank for 10+ years and she cleaned it ever two weeks unless it really needed it and she syphoned (i hope i spelt that right) every few weeks too with half the water. She change the full water and gave it a good clean every month. I WAS going to go with her method but probly alot sooner time frames since my tank is so small until these problems happened. We always had lots of happy fish and they liked to breed so i didnt see why i would have a problem following her same mehods. I dont have another home for my fish and they dont do returns after 3 days. Especially if there is a chance they were in a tank with sick fish. Before my two fish ad frog died, they were really happy in the tank. They were swimming around and exploring and chasing each other.

They also sell a tank that is a 2.5 that is designed for those glo fish danios. They have 4 or 5 of them set up in one at my fish store. They told me those would be good in my tank but no more than three of them and no other fish because of space. Im going to call the manufacturers of my tank tomorrow and see what the deal is with my tank because they offer an assistance phone line and website available for set up, concerns, problems, and questions. My tank would probly be good for strictly dwarf frogs though.... But i think im going to try to figure this out first because ive put too much money into this as it is. Im a poor college student that needs to be saving money, so im either going to figure this out and and try to stay in budget or give up until i find another job.

 

[paytertot]

They also sell a tank that is a 2.5 that is designed for those glo fish danios. They have 4 or 5 of them set up in one at my fish store. They told me those would be good in my tank but no more than three of them and no other fish because of space. Im going to call the manufacturers of my tank tomorrow and see what the deal is with my tank because they offer an assistance phone line and website available for set up, concerns, problems, and questions. My tank would probly be good for strictly dwarf frogs though.... But i think im going to try to figure this out first because ive put too much money into this as it is. Im a poor college student that needs to be saving money, so im either going to figure this out and and try to stay in budget or give up until i find another job.

Danios need lateral swimming space and need to be kept in groups of around six. Also, you aren't going to be able to add any other fish to the tank you have, considering you should probly not have the ones you already do. Since your tank is so small and is not cycled and has fish, I would say you should probably do a daily water change. And get that test kit asap. We'd like to know your water parameters as soon as you can tell us. Maybe take some water in to your lfs to have it tested.

 

[sings4life]

I am taking the water and the frog and the dead fish and the alive but sick fish with me tomorrow. I called early this morning about my frog dying and they said i had to bring the body in for my money back. And im taking the fish and water i to definetly find out what is going on. I know they will have a really nice tester there than i would ever be able to buy on my own. They have soooooo many tanks there. Its amazing.

 

[paytertot]

Well let us know how it goes. And read up some more on fish-in cycling if you get the chance

 

[ErinMcG]

You set yourself a really big challenge, without knowing it. I really don't know why manufacturers and shops do this, but they offer cheap, small tanks as starter tanks and don't always give out as much info as they ought to.

The strange thing about tanks is that the bigger they are, the easier they are to manage. So, your mom's 10 gallon would be easier that your wee tank, and my 29 gallon is easier than my 5 gallon tanks. Smaller tanks are harder because it is easier for things like temp to get out of whack quickly and when the toxins build up, they build up really quickly.

Chances are that your fish were fine at first because there weren't any toxins in the water when you put them in. After all, nothing was in there to poop and pee. But, after a couple of days, they built up dangerous levels of ammonia from their own waste.

When you look at their gills, do any of them look red? Are the fish gasping at all? Those were some of my first clues when I screwed up the first time. My poor neons still have red gills as they have never completely recovered from it.

As has already been suggested, you might try doing daily water changes of about 50% or so. Don't remove the gravel, but if you have a gravel vac, use it to pull out any leftover food and any fish waste. If you don't have a gravel vac, you can do the same with a turkey baster, but go buy one from a dollar store, don't use one that you might want to cook with! Don't leave any uneaten food in the tank. It will contribute to the ammonia build up.

I won't kid you, it will be a lot of work! But, we are trying to help.

 

[sings4life]

None of their gills are red. My first sign that something was wrong was when i noticed my neon tetras were almost while and had barely any blue or red coloring to them. I left the light on for a few hours and their color returned... Obviously not for long since they are dead now.

I figured cleaning was going to be more difficult but im okay with that. Ive definetly got the time in my busy college schedule to clean a small tank every week. I plan to do the water as you said. My friend suggested cleaning the full tank tomorrow after i find out what the fish store has to say about everything.

erin, I like that you suggested the turkey baster, i knew what i was thinking i still needed to buy but couldnt think what it was called! How long do you suggest waiting to suck up the extras?

Also, because i am down to one neon tetra, ill ask you guys and the store tomorrow, in a week (or however long it takes to solve the problem) do you think i should get it two new companions? It seems happy with the two danios so i think i might be okay but im not sure. I definetly want to focus on the problems first but just thought id ask for when i am ready.

Ive also noticed that everyone says one gallon per 1" fish. Neon tetras are less than an inch. And the danios i have are just a bit short of an inch. How does that factor? If that is the case, why do they sell those little goldfish bowls? Im just a newbie asking questions. I dont mean to be lengthly or repeat myself but i want to make sure im getting thoughts across right.

I am fully accepting of everyones opinions and ideas and advice. Even if i dont agree with it all and i know im not using the lingo everyone here is used to, im trying my best. Im a newbie at doing this by myself. Ill let you guys know what they say at the fish store tomorrow.

 

[barterking85]

Don't worry about it we were all new at some point and I didn't always like the advise I got but I followed it and had great success we all start with mistakes

1" per gallon is a rough idea and is often flawed but it's used as the adult size of the fish and the neon will reach an inch or so and the danios bigger then that

They sell those crappy bowls for people that don't care about there fishes health and just want a decoration

 

[aoessand]

Ive only been here a few months but the people here will give you scientific advise, pet stores just want you to buy their stuff... That said years ago i used to keep Oscars in a 20 gallon (guess what, they died all the time) wow that was so wrong and down right cruel to the fish, they need lateral room to swim not just up and down. 1.5 gallon tank should be a snail/shrimp maybe frog tank at most, the fish will just produce too much waste and you will have to do daily water changes. The test kit you need to get is API MASTER KIT, its pretty much the standard around here. Once you get the kit you can test your water daily to see how fast ammonia/nitrites/nitrates raise also your tank is not cycled so you really REALLY need to be doing daily water changes. Also dont follow what you read on the side of a box because thats just there to get people to buy stuff just like most pet stores. If you really want to keep fish you need to get the biggest tank you can and then buy the types of fish that can live in it, not what the petsmart or whatever pet store owner/worker/whatever tells you, look it up on the internet, there is alot of websites run by waaaaaaaaay smarter people than the pet shop guys, again they just want your money...

 

[paytertot]

+10000^ I never listen to my lfs, I ALWAYS ask on here. You really should change the water today. Also, suck out the stuff at the bottom daily too.

 

[Midnighttang]

I just want to let you know that neon tetra color dulls when the lights are off and brightens when it's on. That is normal. Obviously there are other problems, because they are dying, but I just didn't want you to worry about the coloring.

 

[RDerrick]

I tend to ignore most fish store's advice when it comes to stocking amounts. Someone once explained it to me like this, you can live in a room the size of an avg. bathroom as long as you have everything you needed in there but would you be happy and healthy in a room that size your whole life? After hearing that I make sure my fish have some moving about room in all of my tanks.