Does tobacco smoke bother you in restaurants?

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

"Are you saying that your right to smoke outweighs my right to not have smoke in the air I have to breathe? What gives you more rights than I have?"

Nope, what I'm saying is what gives you the right to tell someone how they can run THIER business, what gives you the EXTRA rights to tell me I can't open a bar that allows people to smoke, because you might want to come in? If the shopkeeper decides he wants smokers to come in, and makes it a smoking establishment, then what gives you the right to force your will on him? so you can go where you like? sorry, he wasn't interested in your business in the first place.

"Are you suggesting that it is OK to have kids inhale second hand smoke because you have the "right" to blow it in their faces? You keep comparing smoke to hot dogs and cold air in the winter. What's your point in bringing those into the argument?"

No, I never said it was OK, but you ignorantly jammin hotdogs down my kids throat at a birthday party just increased his/her chances of gettin leukemia by 9x, so where do we draw the line about what's considered endangerment of children? and who has that right to draw lines?


"Are you consistent? Are you in favor of a person's right to smoke marijuana is his own home? To drive at whatever speed he wants on the highway? To play loud music in a train car? All of these would follow from your reasoning with respect to smoking, wouldn't they? "

If I went to a dance club, I would not have the right to complain, if I'm on the train, I WOULD since I'm in a public place that is necessity for me. (if a bar is a necessity for you then you have more issues then smoke). Driving what ever speed you want, well once again, i find your examples to include places people need to be, not places they choose to be, perhaps you have a hard time keeping the 2 seperate.

I'll use one of your examples.

Accidents at speeds of over 90KPH are far more likely to be fatal ones, and you feel your life is in danger everytime you go over that speed, so instead of staying on the back roads where you feel safe, you force the speedlimit reduced to 80 to suit your needs, even tho you only travel on the highway once a year. Not fair to people who don't have a problem.

at what point will we stop trying to protect everyone from everyone else? at what point is it your responsibility to take action on your own accord, if you don't like the speed, stay off the highway, if you don't like the smoke, stay out of the bar that says it contains smoke.

what gives you the right to expect the rest of the population to conform to what makes you feel comfortable.

"Again...How is you rights any greater than mine? "

and how are yours any greater then mine, you have a choice of entering a place or not, if I don't like the smell of McDonalds, I DON'T GO IN, if non-smokers used the same discresion, we wouldn't be having this debate.

and the relation between cigarette smoke and hot dogs, It's the same carcinogen that's found in both.

• N-nitroso compounds. Found in cigarette smoke, some medications and cosmetics,and cured meats, these chemicals induce brain cancer in experimental animals. Maternal ingestion of these compounds during pregnancy can increase the risk of childhood brain cancer and leukemia.

 

[midiman]

Accidents at speeds of over 90KPH are far more likely to be fatal ones, and you feel your life is in danger everytime you go over that speed, so instead of staying on the back roads where you feel safe, you force the speedlimit reduced to 80 to suit your needs, even tho you only travel on the highway once a year. Not fair to people who don't have a problem.

This quote illustrates to me that you fail to grasp the point. You are thinking only about yourself. The person driving over 90 might kill ME, that's why he's not alllowed to do it.

 

[millipede]

as far as the driving thing goes, they said KPH but even then it's hard to say. the illustration didn't make a ton of sense to me either way. People don't know for sure what they can handle as much as they think they do. And the quote makes it sound as if it's one persons rights over everyone elses. People for some reason seem to think we can do absolutely anything we want. This conversation is making less and less sense to me. There are certain things in life that we have rights to do and not do, but other things we don't have the right to do and it's usually for good reason. Now obviously the government makes mistakes but more than often they make their decisions based on the good of all people(most of the time)... We really can't complain about every thing they do just because they're doing something.
"if you don't like the speed stay off the highway" how about if you don't like the speed limit don't drive. We're going back and forth here trying to decide who's rights are more important. Something you do will infringe on my so called rights and something I do might infringe on yours... That's where the government steps in and tries to make things work. Like I said, they make mistakes but they can't please everyone. You seriously can't say that you can handle a greater speed than the limit allows and anyone that can't should stay off that road. How selfish

 

[quarryshark]

Lets not start getting too personal in here. Opinions are fine, but this discussion is getting to the border of unacceptable.

 

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

Yes, 90 Kilometers per hour. (approx 65MPH) and if that's the speed limit, people have the right to do it, even if someone else isn't comfortable with it and they don't feel safe because they choose to be there, it's thier problem not the others.

And the quote makes it sound as if it's one persons rights over everyone elses.

That's exactly what I'm trying to say, is it anyones right to override others? NO.

I think we can agree that there is a disagreement here on who's rights are being violated, your right to choose where you eat, or the owners rights to choose where you eat, clearly, the owners have exclusive rights as to whether or not you are allowed in there. If I was an owner of a restaraunt I'ld have a sheltered area for smokers and throw all non-smokers out of the actual restaraunt for no real reason, but hey, that's just spite. (and well within what limited rights an owner has now)

 

[reefrunner69]

I haven't kept up with this thread, but I just read enough to know that it needs a cool down period. I saw a couple of cheap shots that have no place on this board. This thread will be reopened tomorrow.

 

[reefrunner69]

In addition all three threads about smoking have been merged.

 

[quarryshark]

OK, the thread has been unlocked. Lets keep it civil.

 

[Billsgate]

Woohoo! I'm civil! I haven't smoked in 2 days after smoking an average of 15 cigs/day for the last 4 years. All ya need is a decent motivation...... And you need a calm period in your life to take the time to stop. And you need to decide an exact day so you can mentally prepare. That's my way.
I feel so much better already, I feel more relaxed, I smell better, my food tastes better......all good things.

 

[QTOFFER]

YAY Billsgate! Congrats to you - I'm sure you'll succeed.

All ya need is a decent motivation...... And you need a calm period in your life to take the time to stop.

So true! I have a friend who stopped smoking after years of smoking about the same as you. His motivation was his fiancee. Unfortunately, he chose to stop a few days before he moved to a new apartment, and the move didn't go quite as smoothly as he had planned. He was smoking like a chimney that day. After he got settled in, he stopped again, permanently this time.

 

[midiman]

Good luck quitting. It's certainly not easy but it is a true demonstration of character, determination, and motivation - as well as just plain "smarts".

You may go through a tough couple of days ahead, but think in terms of a week - if you are smoke free after a week, the worst is behind you.

 

[Billsgate]

Thanks for the support guys. I've basically locked myself up over the last 2 days, relaxed, watched some movies, did fun stuff around the house.
Tommorow I face the world again (I have to 'work': play as an extra in a series on national tv, shooting will only take 45 minutes) That's the next step. Not smoking in social and slightly stressfull situations. Besides, no smoking in the studio!

I'm really glad I finally quit. And I will keep it up.

 

[Rudy_627]

it doesnt bother me cause some of my family members smoke so i got used to it

 

[Nasty]

Its been shown second hand smoke is worse than smoking itself.

Hogwash...My lungs filter out most if not all of the bad stuff...Ever notice how if a DR. can't figure out what's wrong with you he claims second hand smoke?

 

[JG]

Ummm... just where does the bad stuff go and what does it do while there?

 

[midiman]

Hogwash...My lungs filter out most if not all of the bad stuff...Ever notice how if a DR.

Sorry, but that's nonsense. If it reaches your lungs, the filter has been bypassed. The "filter" is the cilia in your upper respiratory tract. Once smoke pentrates the lungs, it deposits tar on the alveolar membrane. Nicotine is aborbed there as well, contributing to your durg addiction (assuming youa re a smoker).

Seond hand smoke is of course not WORSE than smoking itself, but is a substantial health risk. No serious helath professional doubts that.

 

[PatM]

Heres the way I quit. My wife and I agreed that if I quit I could spend the money I was spending on smoking on more fish stuff. I went from a 20 gallon reef and a 10 gallon reef to a 55 gallon reef with a 20 gallon sump. In about three months I bought the tank, the pumps, more live rock, everything. I still smoke cigars occasionally but it was worth it. I feel great! I, however, still think it is an adults choice, not the choice of the government. I just plain hate when the government makes our health choices for us, I am a big boy and I can handle myself thank you very much. If I want to run an establishment and provide an area to smoke thats my business.

 

[midiman]

I just plain hate when the government makes our health choices for us

Remember that "the government" is the PEOPLE that we elect, and they pass PLENTY of laws that restrict freedom - speed limits, drug laws, noise ordinances, etc. Far scarier, it seems to me, is our current administration's zeal to increase the power of govt to pry into our privates lives courtesy of the "Patriot Act". I wish people would get as upset over that as they do about smoking laws!!! But that's a topic for another thread, perhaps....

Anyway, sounds like you've found a MUCH better way to spend money

 

[youronlysin]

Wow. What a tolerant and open minded staff we have here at AA. I knew this topic was a firecracker when I saw it post; still at 0 replies. I have my own opinions on this subject matter but I've decided to keep them to myself. It's great that we can have intelligent debates, just to see where everyone stands; politics, sports, hobbies, etc. but this is a passionate subject for many. This is the type of thread that turns friends into enemies and I just hate watching that happen right in front of me. I think everyone has had a chance to cast their vote and let everyone else know where they stand on the subject. Do we need to keep arguing about whether or not those opinions are right, fair or just????? The topic asks a simple question and asks for a simple vote. I can respect the fact that half of you voted differently than I did. I can respect the fact that your feelings are different than mine. What I do not respect is someone who persists on telling me that my opinion is wrong and why it is wrong. Now, as of this moment, I have not voted nor have I told any of you where I stand on this subject and I am going to refrain from it. I have not had an argument with anyone on this board. The reason I am posting is because I am a member of this board the same as all of you and at this moment I am disgusted to see how far this has gone on. Good folks are turning against other good folks just for being who they are and always have been. I think its a great idea that the moderators allow discussions such as this and allow us, as members, to be a little more verbal than we could at most other boards that are ruled with an iron fist, so to speak. I don't believe that the moderators need to prevent posts such as this or even ban members who post controversial topics. I do think however, that either we need to determine when things are getting out of hand or it will be determined for us. My only hope is that, whatever determines this for us isn't our good friends walking away.

 

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

Hmm, I would have thought this was a rather well done debate, both sides presented thier cases, each has been read by people, I would hope this is what a debate is about.

if it were an arguement, then yes, the mods should have closed it down, but I feel it was handled well, and I appreciate the lack of mud slinging and name calling associated with other boards.

the point of a debate is to allow others to see your views, if it makes 1 person go "hey, he might have a point" then I believe the goal is accomplished.

Personally, I've found this thread to be fun and amusing, I don't get hurt feelings because others may not share my views, that's life and I would hope that not everyone shares my views, otherwise I lose a bit of the unique quality that makes us individuals wouldn't you say?