Ethics

[SpaceFish42]

I'm sure there are lots of different opinions on issues such as culling, euthanasia, etc., so this thread is meant for discussion about those more controversial topics.

 

[Yorg]

Euthanasia

Hi SpaceFish42:

In the case of euthanasia, do you think the controversy is around whether or not to do it, or around how it should be done?

-Yorg

I'm sure there are lots of different opinions on issues such as culling, euthanasia, etc., so this thread is meant for discussion about those more controversial topics.

 

[Delapool]

I'd be interested in how people deal with infected fish. Do they fight it to the end whatever the result or replace fish early? I don't think there is a right or wrong answer as every tank and situation is different and it also helps if you have the funds.

For myself, it varies. Most of the time I like to have a crack at getting a cure but there have been times I've replaced the fish.

 

[SpaceFish42]

Hi SpaceFish42:



In the case of euthanasia, do you think the controversy is around whether or not to do it, or around how it should be done?



-Yorg

Either one, but I think the controversy is mostly on how.

 

[Stacey W.]

I had a gourami with bloat I did everything in the book to save him. I couldn't watch him suffer anymore. He was on deaths doorstep . I then made an ice slush in the freezer and put him in it. As a Veterinary Technician for 14 years I have seen animals suffer and I have also euthanized quite a few. I figured in my eyes that was the best way after researching euthanasia in fish. I felt horrible because it's not like we have an injection so they go to sleep peacefully.

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[Mebbid]

I had a gourami with bloat I did everything in the book to save him. I couldn't watch him suffer anymore. He was on deaths doorstep . I then made an ice slush in the freezer and put him in it. As a Veterinary Technician for 14 years I have seen animals suffer and I have also euthanized quite a few. I figured in my eyes that was the best way after researching euthanasia in fish. I felt horrible because it's not like we have an injection so they go to sleep peacefully.

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We don't need an injection. The use of clove oil is an anesthetic that puts them to sleep and then eventually stops respiratory function letting them go peacefully in their sleep. I got a vial of it in a toothache remedy kit.

 

[Stacey W.]

I didn't have clove oil on hand at the time. I needed to do something asap he was dying.

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[SpaceFish42]

I don't think people should ever cull fry just because they have too many or don't look quite right, but if it's "necessary," would clove oil be the best way to do it?

 

[Mebbid]

I don't think people should ever cull fry just because they have too many or don't look quite right, but if it's "necessary," would clove oil be the best way to do it?

Clove oil is the best way to euthanize imho.

As for the culls, what would we really do with all the fish made in breeding?

Take the fancy guppies for example. Each strain means thousands if not tens of thousands of guppies being made to develop a strain. What would we do with them all?

 

[J.Mcpeak]

If it's quick it's ok. (No details from me)
I always try and save a sick animal but sometimes. . . I put it out of its misery.
I will spend the time/money to try but there is a point when you can't carry on, some fish I've spent 20-30 times value on meds (small cheap fish, several attempts, gets expensive) if there is no improvement. Deal with it.

I cull fry, I do (or did) it because they can't be passed on. You get a bad reputation for a bucket full of deformed fish, good stock keeps people wanting. They are happy to snatch a bargain!
(Also can be used for feeders if you have the right fry and a piscivore.)

Platy bred exclusively for feeding my bichir, Cory bred to make fish tokens. I see it as a necessary process, you want fish that eat fish, you must feed them properly!

 

[Barbz99]

I had a gourami with bloat I did everything in the book to save him. I couldn't watch him suffer anymore. He was on deaths doorstep . I then made an ice slush in the freezer and put him in it. As a Veterinary Technician for 14 years I have seen animals suffer and I have also euthanized quite a few. I figured in my eyes that was the best way after researching euthanasia in fish. I felt horrible because it's not like we have an injection so they go to sleep peacefully.

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This is an absolutely untheical way to do it in my opinion...would you want to go through the pain for freezing to death? And on top of that, a human would pass out after a while and stop feeling. A fish will not pass out due to pain and can actually feel the ice crystals forming on the surface of their skin. This is an extremely agonizing and long experience. I am not telling you this to make you feel bad, but to prevent others from doing this. Adoption or clove oil in my opinion are the only ethical ways.
~Zac

 

[SpaceFish42]

What's adoption?

 

[fort384]

All
This is a good, valid discussion and we want to keep it. But it has to stay civil. These kinds of threads can devolve quickly so just remember there are many opinions and keep personal attacks out of it. So far so good but just wanted to offer some "pre-warning" as these discussions can go south quick.

Thanks all and thanks in advance for sharing your views and opinions while keeping it civil!!


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[Mebbid]

This is an absolutely untheical way to do it in my opinion...would you want to go through the pain for freezing to death? And on top of that, a human would pass out after a while and stop feeling. A fish will not pass out due to pain and can actually feel the ice crystals forming on the surface of their skin. This is an extremely agonizing and long experience. I am not telling you this to make you feel bad, but to prevent others from doing this. Adoption or clove oil in my opinion are the only ethical ways.
~Zac

The ice slushy supposedly causes the fish to go into instant shock. I.e. the hugely rapid change in temperature kills it immediately without pain.

What you're referring to is sticking it in a bowl of water and throwing it in the freezer.

 

[Stacey W.]

This is an absolutely untheical way to do it in my opinion...would you want to go through the pain for freezing to death? And on top of that, a human would pass out after a while and stop feeling. A fish will not pass out due to pain and can actually feel the ice crystals forming on the surface of their skin. This is an extremely agonizing and long experience. I am not telling you this to make you feel bad, but to prevent others from doing this. Adoption or clove oil in my opinion are the only ethical ways.
~Zac

What else could I have done? So you want me to adopt out a dying fish? I said I didn't have clove oil. What else do you want from me? Tell me what you would have done better. By the time I would have gotten oil he would have been dead. He was already in enough pain. You need to tell me what store is open on Christmas Eve at 10pm to purchase clove oil.

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[Barbz99]

The ice slushy supposedly causes the fish to go into instant shock. I.e. the hugely rapid change in temperature kills it immediately without pain.

What you're referring to is sticking it in a bowl of water and throwing it in the freezer.

I would think that shock by cold would be a painful experience in itself. But maybe not. :b

 

[Mebbid]

What else could I have done? So you want me to adopt out a dying fish? I said I didn't have clove oil. What else do you want from me? Tell me what you would have done better. By the time I would have gotten oil he would have been dead. He was already in enough pain. You need to tell me what store is open on Christmas Eve at 10pm to purchase clove oil.

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Take a read of the posts that came before yours 3 people were posting at once

 

[Barbz99]

Take a read of the posts that came before yours 3 people were posting at once

Most fish dying a painful death are not an overnight or instant thing. So it probably could have been taken care of before he would have died over night. Regardless, it is over and you can't do anything about it. I am,just stating my opinion
~Zac

 

[J.Mcpeak]

All
This is a good, valid discussion and we want to keep it. But it has to stay civil. These kinds of threads can devolve quickly so just remember there are many opinions and keep personal attacks out of it. So far so good but just wanted to offer some "pre-warning" as these discussions can go south quick.

Thanks all and thanks in advance for sharing your views and opinions while keeping it civil!!


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Just in time methinks!

 

[Stacey W.]

Sorry, the Scottish in me is coming out .

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