Getting and staying in shape *sigh*

[deli_conker]

talloulou and zenn --> That's what I mean by eating clean.

And the word diet refers to what you eat on a daily basis, not something you do right before summer.

I start my day off with 32 oz of water 15 minutes before I hit the gym. An old Chinese man I used to know suggested it to me. Good advice...

 

[rubysoho]

oh man, I can't drink that much right before I work out. I get a cramp. Is it because I am weird or is there something else? I try to drink lots of water throughout the day and then I keep a waterbottle with me when I work out (which I do at night because I am not a morning person, hehe).

 

[Andos99]

This is all really excellent information and I've enjoyed reading all of it. I plan to take it all in and develop a plan of my own. As far as building muscle is concerned, I have always horribly neglected my legs, but it makes perfect sense now on why they are so important in many aspects. I have just one more question for you all and it concerns supplements. What do you guys take or recommend? I've been incorporating protein powder/water mix right after workouts. It offers 20 grams per serving and it's low cal, zero fat....basically just to supplement the protein aspect of my diet.

 

[deli_conker]

oh man, I can't drink that much right before I work out. I get a cramp. Is it because I am weird or is there something else? I try to drink lots of water throughout the day and then I keep a waterbottle with me when I work out (which I do at night because I am not a morning person, hehe).

I takes a while to get used to it. I started off by drinking lots of water while working out and then slowly started drinking a little bit before working out, increasing volume over time to the current amount. My body really works a lot better at the gym because it already has fluid replacment already in the works.

Andos99 --> As far as supplementation is concerned, boy did you open a can of worms. DO NOT LISTEN TO THE HYPE!!! There is no magic pill or powder that will make you stronger, bigger or ripped overnight. That old Chinese guy I mentioned earlier used to tell me "You no be Bruce Lee overnight." It's the same kind of thing.

That being said, I recommend one product above all others (assuming you are eating right). L-Glutamine. Just the powder by itself. Don't bother buying it with some "delivery system". Basically, you're getting very little L-Glutamine mixed with kool-aid that is sweetened with dextrose if you take that route. I take my dose with my water that I drink before the gym. It has no taste, but has the texture of very, very fine sand. Put a spoonful in your mouth and just wash it back with the water, it's not nearly as bad as it sounds. You can take it with something, but it doesn't mix well and will settle to the bottom very quickly.

What is does:
About 75% of it will stay in your digestive tract. The walls of your intestines will love it as it repairs damage (it has been prescribed to ulcer patients with much success) and be absorbed there. Aside from that, it is the most abundant amino acid in your muscles. My personal experience with it is that it greatly aids in recovery. Recovery is the time needed to repair muscle trauma to the point where it is ready to be worked out again. I noticed amazing differences when using it. Instead of needing 5 days between similar workouts, I only needed two. This might not sound like much, but most exercises will use more muscles than you would think and this makes quick recovery that much more important.

For instance on one day you do arms; curls, close grip bench press, push ups, tricep pushdowns, suicide curls, chin ups. A couple of days later you do your back; lat pull downs, reverse pec deck, dumbell rows, etc. You are using your arm muscles throughout your back day. The lat pulldowns and rows will hit your biceps. The reverse pec deck will hit your triceps. If those muscles haven't recovered enough from arms day, then your back day will suffer for it not only in what you can do, but also in form and safety. Trust me, you don't want a back injury. It also keeps your muscles from staying tired after a workout. They will feel worked, but will lose that feeling much quicker and thus be able to perform sooner. Good stuff.

The next suggestion is creatine monohydrate. You'll hear conflicting results on people saying if it works or not. Here's why. Your muscles already have a certain amount of creatine in them. It's used in the whole process of energy creation within your muscles (the ability to flex with force to generate power). Some people have more naturally than others. It's just the way it is. If you already have enough, then taking it won't do anything. If you don't have a lot naturally, then taking it will help.

What it does:
I've already mentioned that it is used in the contraction part, but it also has several other interesting "side effects". First of these is increased muscle hydration. Having a hydrated muscle is a good thing. We're mostly water you know. Keeping this in mind, you'll need to drink more water. Failure to do so will cause cramps like you wouldn't believe and possibly relative dehydration as your water needs have increased. Increased water in the muscle also means increased size. For some people this is important, for others it is not. Having enough creatine (assuming you are staying hydrated) also has the effect of increasing you strength. This part I don't fully understand so I'm not going to talk about it other than give an analogy. Suffice it to say that a well taken care of engine will run better than one that has never had an oil change in the past 20000 miles. Having proper hydration and the replacement chemicals already in your system (creatine, l-glutamine, protein (amino acids), water) is comparable to the well oiled machine. It also helps with recovery, as your body has the much needed replacement chemicals already there to repair the trauma. Being able to lift heavier weights allows muscle to grow faster. That's why so many think that this is the best supplement (I still think it's number 2 though).

A word of warning though. There have been reports of harmful side effects attributed to over dosing creatine monohydrate over a period of time. One of which was seizures. I have only heard of a few cases and can't substantiate them. Even so, don't be stupid. When you have a headache, you take one or two headache pills, not ten of them. Follow the directions on the label and you should be fine. Also, if you have to take a piss test, it may look like you have kidney damage (they test for creatinine which is similar to creatine) and it will look like you have issues. It takes around two weeks of no creatine for you to pass the excess amounts out. You'll notice muscle differences at around 4 weeks. I've had no problems with it and don't know of anybody personally or 'friend of a friend' who has.

Fat burners and such: It's your body. I personally would never use them. I stay away from stimulants anyways maybe having one caffeinated drink per month. Yes, they will speed you metabolism up. Yes, they will cause your body to burn more calories. Yes, they will make your insides age much quicker. It's true. My mom is a nurse and they recently had a patient who abused fat burners. He was having pain around his liver. They did several tests and found out that his 30 something year old body had the internal organs that showed the wear and tear of a 70 year old man. I also know a guy on one of the muscle boards who was taking an ECA stack (ephedra, caffeine, and aspirin) while working out. He went to do his cardio and the heart monitor shot up to around 190 beats per minute. At that rate you risk spontaneous cardiac arrest. He hasn't used fat burners since. Personally I would avoid them since their usage is only a temporary fix and not a real solution.

Other supplemetation --> I take a protein drink (whey for fastest digestion) immediately after my workout. It has 40 grams of protein in it. The faster you get those aminos into your system and into those muscles, the greater recovery rate you'll have. Think of the protein drink as a battlefield doctor and your muscle are screaming "medic!". The sooner you get it there, the better off you are. I don't drink it before my workout because digestion requires blood to be in the area of your stomach (that's why many heart attacks happen after eating a very large meal). When you are working out, you want your blood to be in your muscles. It's counter productive. I try to get most of my nutrition from food and not from supplements. I do take a multivitamin and glucosamine&chondroiten (for joint health).

Let me know if you have any specific questions about products. I'll try to help.

 

[Andos99]

Did you study this stuff? You seem to know volumes of information on the topic.

 

[rubysoho]

rubysoho wrote:
oh man, I can't drink that much right before I work out. I get a cramp. Is it because I am weird or is there something else? I try to drink lots of water throughout the day and then I keep a waterbottle with me when I work out (which I do at night because I am not a morning person, hehe).

I takes a while to get used to it. I started off by drinking lots of water while working out and then slowly started drinking a little bit before working out, increasing volume over time to the current amount. My body really works a lot better at the gym because it already has fluid replacment already in the works.

thanks! Do you think it is better to do it that way only if you work out in the morning and if you work out at night just drink lots of water over the day?

Sorry if I am hijacking the thread... but maybe it will help you with your workouts to??

 

[deli_conker]

Did you study this stuff? You seem to know volumes of information on the topic.

It's a hobby I guess. When I get into something, I like to find out as much as possible about it. It's interesting how much the science of it has changed over the past couple decades though. And how commonly held beliefs are shot down once certain things become apparent. That's why HST probably won't catch on mainstream for a while; it's still in the "What?!? There's no way that could work." stage. Experience shows me otherwise. It might not be 100% correct, but the results echo the test positively every time.

Do you think it is better to do it that way only if you work out in the morning and if you work out at night just drink lots of water over the day?

First off, just a technicality. When I say morning, I am referring to when you wake up. I know some people don't get up until after noon, so that is their "morning".

As long as you are drinking water throughout the day, you should be fine and not need to drink a lot pre-workout. Just make sure you have some handy at the gym for mid-workout. To avoid cramps, drink in very small quantities.

The main thing here is the fact that you just slept for 6-8 hours. You're not hydrating your body while you sleep, so it's a good thing to get some water in you when you wake up. Same reasons why "breakfast is the most important meal of the day". You are breaking the fast.

There are two reasons why I recommend working out in the morning. Reason #1 is because I work for a living and am of the viewpoint that my energy should be spent on me first. If I get home from work and am too tired to workout, I'm losing out. If I workout in the morning, it's not going to stop me from going to work. This ensures that I get it done.

Reason #2 is based on the above breakfast principle. You don't eat while you're sleeping either. The glycogen stored in your liver provides energy for your body to keep the heart pumping, lungs breathing, etc. When you wake up in the morning, that energy source is depleted. You eat breakfast to start recharging it. By holding off on breakfast and doing your cardio, you force your body to get energy from a different source. The easiest place to get it is from it's natural storage; fat. So by putting breakfast off for a while, you start to mobilize fat. One important point is to not replace that fat. Put another way, eat less than you burn.

Since I'm already on the subject, I feel I should also state why there is a difference between low and high intensity cardio. Your body gets energy from many sources. Most of which are quickly depleted. Long term sources include fat, and breaking down protein (muscle). Fat is the easiest and most economically source of calories for burning, so it is usually where your body goes to get energy. The problem lies in the fact that your body's mechanisms are based on cause and effect and not on coherent thought. For instance, you can't tell your body to burn fat from your stomach. When you start exercising, your body doesn't know when it's going to end, if it's going to get easier or harder, etc. By adding intensity, your body eventually thinks that it is going to need more energy than what it's getting from fat, so it compensates by adding more protein to the fire.

Here's some math...

Person A does low intensity cardio for 30 minutes
Person B does higher intensity cardio for 30 minutes

Person A is burning calories at protein/fat ratio of 10/90.
Person B is burning calories at protein/fat ratio of 45/55.

Person A burns 200 calories during their session
Person B burns 300 calories during their session (intense cardio burns more calories)

Person A burned (90% of 200) 180 fat calories.
Person B burned (55% of 300) 165 fat calories.

What does all that mean?
Assuming person A & B are the same in all ways...

• Person B will lose weight quicker than Person A. More calories burned == more weight lost.
• Person A burned more calories from fat, and now has less fat than person B.
• Person B lost muscle mass as part of that greater weight loss. This will (most likely) need to be replaced ending up in not as much weight actually lost.

It comes down to your goal. Is it weight loss or fat loss? For effective fat loss, you have to do lower cardio for longer periods of time. I know several weight lifters who will finish their workout with an hour of walking on a treadmill. High intensity cardio has some good effects other than burning calories though. It increases your aerobic capacity, decreases resting heart rate and blood pressure and other things too.

It all comes down to what you want. If you want to just lose weight, go with the higher cardio (don't just jump into if you're not currently working out though, you could hurt yourself). If you want to maximize fat loss, go the lower intensity route.

Since this is a public board, I feel I must also give this disclaimer for those without the ability to think for themselves:

I am not a doctor. I am only sharing ideas that I believe to be true. Any interpretation of the above info (right or wrong) is your problem, not mine. If you have questions regarding your health, then please ask a licensed health professional and not a public forum on the internet where anybody can give their opinion no matter how crazy it is.

 

[rubysoho]

hehe, nice disclaimer. I don't think anyone will sue you for not losing weight like they wanted. Besides, they could never know for sure if they would have lost the weight another way because they can't go back and redo it all.

Okay, so I totally understand about the eating breakfast after working out. Once school starts again and I'm in a regular schedule, I'll start working out in the mornings. What I do now is I wait until the football team is done working out (they usually end between 9pm-10pm) so I have the track all to myself... and I hate working out infront of people... but I am getting better! I think as I've been working out, I've become more proud of my body even though I'm not perfect, and I don't mind people so much anymore. Like before I started working out, try getting me in a skirt, it ain't gonna happen. But now, I don't mind so much. Or, I'd never be caught dead infront of people in my comfy knit shorts, but now it doesn't seem like such a big deal. So that is pretty cool...

Now, I don't really eat after 6pm, if I do, it is a very light meal so I don't wake up hungry. Since I'm not working out some nights until 10-10:30, do you think it has somewhat of an affect as working out in the morning? Also, what about that "your metabolism goes up after a workout and so you burn more calories for the next some amount of hours" so that would hopefully mean I am burning calories while I sleep? hehe, I doubt this one, just wanted to hear what you had to say on that.

BTW, thanks for all the info you've been taking the time to share Kudos to you!

 

[deli_conker]

I don't think anyone will sue you for not losing weight like they wanted.

I'm more concerned about somebody getting on a treadmill and running like crazy because they are all hyped up about losing weight and then having a heart attack because they are pushing too hard too fast.

Now, I don't really eat after 6pm, if I do, it is a very light meal so I don't wake up hungry. Since I'm not working out some nights until 10-10:30, do you think it has somewhat of an affect as working out in the morning?

Our bodies are very good at using/storing energy efficiently. When you have slept for 8 hours, you are literally running on empty. You have to figure that some types of protein take around 4 hours (or more) to digest and can provide energy in some form at that time. Not eating for 8 hours will ensure that all food has been digested and that your body has been using glycogen stores for some time as well. I would say no, it doesn't make much difference.

Also, what about that "your metabolism goes up after a workout and so you burn more calories for the next some amount of hours"

I think the issue here is the section of time you are looking at. You are constantly burning calories, even when you sleep. Your metabolism will increase at all times if you exercise regularly. Increasing muscle mass will require more calories to be burned. Guys with huge muscles require massive amounts of calories just to exist. These guys eat enormous amounts of clean food.

One thing to always keep in mind (I may have said this earlier) is that you are either gaining or losing. It's pretty much impossible to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time unless you were seriously overweight to begin with. But for somebody who is active and fairly healthy, you have to choose one or the other.

Gaining --> I love growing season. It means I get to eat big and lift big. The trick here is to eat just enough to create the muscle you are trying to build knowing that any excess calories will turn into fat. I've seen people just go hog wild with the eating part and gain decent muscle and a lot of fat (been there personally). You can always lose the weight later, but it's a lot easier in the long run if you don't gain it in the first place. Anyways, the point is that you gain muscle and fat on this type of diet, you just want gain as much muscle and as little fat as possible by eating your caloric requirements plus just enough to make new muscle.

Ripping --> Losing weight can be fun. In the beginning that is, when you're still thinking of how good you're going to look in 8 weeks. Same situation though; you're going to lose muscle along with the fat. Losing the muscle means you have to lower your calories because your body won't burn as many as it did earlier. The trick with this one is to stick with the low intensity cardio so you burn more fat than muscle (just be prepared to spend the extra time doing it) and not to restrict your diet so much that you starve your body into catabolism.

I've mentioned low and high intensity cardio, I think I should elaborate a little.
The quickest method of finding your cardio numbers is as follows...

220-age=max heart rate
80% of max == high end
65% of max == low end

My numbers by this method are 150 high, 122 low. The midpoint is 136.
If I am doing cardio, and my heart rate is between 122 and 136, then I am doing low intensity cardio.
If my heart rate is between 136 and 150, then it is considered high intensity cardio.
Obviously if it is below 122 then I need to either speed up or increase resistance.
If it is above 150, then I need to slow down and decrease resistance.
Low intensity will burn more calories with fat as the source (proportionally).
Higher intensity will improve aerobic capacity. After a few months of this, you will notice that you will have to increase speed and/or resistance to keep getting you heart into the higher levels. That's because it's getting stronger and more capable of doing it's job well.

Again, my earlier disclaimer applies...

 

[Andos99]

Wow! This is some seriously wonderful info.....thanks again. I think I'm going to focus on your ripping portion of the last post. Looking at your numbers for cardio, I have a tendency to work at the high intensity end of the cardio spectrum, so I'm considering taking it down a notch. My body fat percentage at this stage is too high and fat loss is really what I need to focus on first and the rest can come later. I will however continue to weight train at a fairly intense pace. This combination has worked for me in the past. We'll see. I'll let ya'll know how everything goes. I am leaving this Sunday for a 2 week business trip to MN, and the hotel I'm staying at has a full gym......I'm really going to use this time to workout as much as I can, as I tend to have too much free time on trips like this.

 

[FawnN]

Exercising is a big factor in Losing Weight. I changed the way I look at food for about 3 weeks now and I have lost over 12lbs. My goal is to loose the 30lbs of baby fat I still had from the birth of my 2nd son.

By cutting out all sodas, juices and allowing myself just one cup of coffee a day, I can tell right away it has made a big difference.

I am eating everything that I want, but in a lot smaller quantities. I limit myself to a plate of food the size of my fist and as much green vegies as I want (boiled, without salt or butter). I have breakfast, snack, lunch snack, dinner and a snack. By continously eating all day, your metabolism will continue to keep going.

Limit yourself to red meat. Stick with chicken, fish and any vegie that is green.

By exercising on an empty stomach, your body takes the stored fat you have and burns it. I don't eat after 6pm. If I do get hungry, I will grab a small peach or a banana.

And most importantly, exercise. My trainer/ friend told me that walking for at least 15 minutes a day or every other day will help your metabolism.

I wish I had the time and energy to run to the gym, but realistically I don't. I work 8+ hours a day and then go home to my second job, MY FAMILY, so it was difficult for me to eat at a decent time and eat healthy. As for motivation, my husband keeps me going. He supports me and pushes me when I get lazy at night and I don't want to go on my stepper.

 

[talloulou]

Sounds like you are doing great Fawn. Keep it up. Eventually you will crave exercise everyday and feel a little off on days you don't get it. Exercise was my new drug when I quit smoking.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

You're exactly right Talloulou. When I started gung-ho exercising, if I didn't do it every day without fail, I would feel sluggish and become easily irritated. I try to walk every morning, but sometimes I can't find the time until after work. I have a similar schedule to you Fawn in regards to work then going home to family. But my family starts me on my household work as soon as I walk through the door. Whether it be mowing the grass, gardening, going grocery shopping or errand running, or computer work. It's like I work at work, then come home to work. Yesterday it was going to STL to pick up tractor parts. To try to combat this I get up a little bit earlier in the morning. I may lose an hours sleep, but I will also lose those extra pounds that I gained from my college days.

 

[deli_conker]

I wish I had the time and energy to run to the gym, but realistically I don't.

I'm pretty lucky in that respect. the apartment complex I live in has a free gym for residents. And it's not an el-cheapo-better-than-nothing one. The local pro sports teams train here. They have indoor batting cages and soccer fields etc. Not to mention a nice sports bar that overlooks the playing areas. Oh yeah, it takes me three and a half minutes to walk from the eliptical machine I do my cardio on to my front door (I timed it the other day to see if it qualified as cool down).

I will however continue to weight train at a fairly intense pace.

If it works really well then you might want to check out HIT. I prefer HST at high intensity. Here's a breakdown to avoid confusion...

HST == Hypertrophic Specific Training
HIT == High Intensity Training
SST == Strength Specific Training (info from HST's forum)

Since you want to go the "ripping" route, I would suggest you find you BMR. You can go to that site I posted earlier to get a ballpark. Something I did a couple of years ago was find a place with a body gem. It's a device that measures your exact BMR. Four hours before you do it, no food, no drink (except water), no caffeine, no ciggarettes, no exercise, etc. Then they take your age weight etc, and hook you up to the machine. Basically they use a clip to pinch your nose shut so you can't breathe through it and then you breathe into a scuba type aparatus for about 15 minutes. It measures the amount of oxygen your body uses to "exist". By finding this out it can determine how many calories your body needs to exist. Mine at that point was 2083. This number represents what my body needs if I do nothing all day, by knowing it I can plan meals and exercises accordingly.

I got it done at Bally's for $45. It's expensive, but it also eliminates any guesswork in how many calories you should be consuming.