People not taking care of their fish - rant

[brennae]

It's not even healthy for the fish, who knows what kind of disease or parasites the fish can get from that, I'm sure in the wild this happens but deliberately doing it is another thing.

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Oh, I'm with you on that one. I couldn't even make it through the video.

 

[Andy Sager]

PS. Listen to Andy, he is the jedi master of bettas.

Good one! I'm just trying to be the voice of facts versus opinions. As they say" Everyone can have an opinion but not everyone's opinion is based on facts." ( I cleaned that up A LOT for this forum. )

Hopefully the OP and "the problem" can work things out.

 

[Molson_28]

The problem is that people buy these stupid small tanks and fish bowls. If nobody bought them them the company wouldn't make them. Shame on the fish stores for selling them. Try living in a closet the rest of your life and see how you like it. Just because a fish can survive in one gallon of water doesn't make it right.


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[Andy Sager]

The problem is that people buy these stupid small tanks and fish bowls. If nobody bought them them the company wouldn't make them. Shame on the fish stores for selling them. Try living in a closet the rest of your life and see how you like it. Just because a fish can survive in one gallon of water doesn't make it right.


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And this is a perfect example of opinion vs fact. Yes, most fish will not do well in 1 gallon of water but that does not apply to all fish. In nature, there are fish that stay in probably less than a gallon's worth of water their entire lives so if that gallon bowl or tank can be kept clean, why is that bowl or small tank a bad thing?
The real problem is people put the wrong things in the wrong places. Would you put water in the gas tank of your car? How about cooking oil in the radiator? Obviously not. But now let's look at real situations: People let pet birds fly loose in rooms with operating ceiling fans or windows that are open without any thought of the consequences of doing these things. I don't see many people calling the bird police on that one. The family dog or cat is allowed to sleep outside, unguarded from predators, yet nobody complains when they are attacked and killed. ( RIP fido or mr. whiskers ) Isn't this animal cruelty when the pet had no defenses because we trained them not to bark or declawed them so they won't ruin the furniture? Do we not allow these people to buy or obtain replacement pets after this? What about handling the pet turtle when the tank's water hasn't been changed in a month and the turtle has a good case of salmonella in or on it? Does it matter that it was in 30 gallons of water? Do we cheer that the person got sick because of that? Fish are no different.
It's all about proper education. That's on YOU! ( The general you not the specific you. ) The same way you don't buy one of everything you see in the grocery store just because they have it for sale, you don't buy the wrong container for the wrong pet. So is the problem REALLY the small tanks and bowls or is it something else?

 

[Molson_28]

I believe it's the small tanks and bowls. Again. Go live in a closet and tell me if u like it


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[Andy Sager]

I believe it's the small tanks and bowls. Again. Go live in a closet and tell me if u like it


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Okay, to you or I, a 5' 10" 240+ lb person, a closet would be too small to live in but if I were a 1" or 2" person weighing only an ounce or 2, a closet would feel like a huge place to live in. So it's your perspective that is not seeing clearly. What's small to some is huge to others.

 

[ImACoolguy]

Okay, to you or I, a 5' 10" 240+ lb person, a closet would be too small to live in but if I were a 1" or 2" person weighing only an ounce or 2, a closet would feel like a huge place to live in. So it's your perspective that is not seeing clearly. What's small to some is huge to others.

I get your point Andy. Point being, small tanks and bowls CAN be used, but they must be stocked appropriately. 9/10 times it's a new fish keeper that is not stocking it probably which results in disaster. Nano tanks are actually becoming a think these days. Search up the nano reefs that some people make only being a couple gallons.

completely IMO... Anything under 2 gallons shouldn't hold a fish. That's just me. Under 2g you can do shrimp or snails


Caleb

 

[Molson_28]

I've read books on nano tanks. I've researched fish for hours and hours like most people who are into this hobby do. I really don't care if a beta fish can survive in a puddle in the wild. Your kitchen, living room or bedroom isn't the wild. You have the means and the common sense to give this little life a proper home. A better home. So a little respect for the fish and give it something it can be happy in.


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[TheresaM]

It's not really If nobody bought them them the company wouldn't make them. People use a lot of containers that weren't specifically made and sold for fishkeeping, lots of threads at TPK about nano bowls, vases, etc.

Is a better life for a betta a well-maintained 1g or the small cup at the store?

Not trying to argue, lots of good points here...just thought I'd toss in a few thoughts

 

[Molson_28]

I understand the company not making these tiny bowls wouldn't stop people from putting fish in tiny containers. I'm just saying that if people didn't buy that one specific product. Then the company would not put it on the shelf because nobody would buy it. They wouldn't be making any money off of these tiny fish bowls and so in turn they would replace that shelf space with something that does sell. Company's are there to make money not display tiny bowls that do not sell. The problem is they do sell so that's why they carry them


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[coralbandit]

There is a LARGE difference between people not taking care of fish when properly advised and people buying a "small " tank for their very first.
Most did not enter this hobby with full blown "MTS" and large aquariums or the knowledge to maintain them.
M you are way off topic here and have not considered that as "inappropriate" IMO as most of these setups are in the application most use them ,we all started somewhere.
It is not for any of us to judge a new keepers merit on how they enter the hobby as much as how they receive information.
I hope this helps you?
I am with Andy(surprised?) there is a place for small tank WE just don't seem to be able to control our behavior enough to use them properly.
You really want to the blame the people(Aqueon for one) who made my 180 gallon tank!
I don't appreciate that.
I appreciate people with facts that can back a good opinion!

 

[Delapool]

It's been interesting watching the guy opposite me learn the ropes of fish keeping. One thing I've been reminded on is that there is an incredible amount to learn.

First lesson on cycling was reduced to ammonia 'bad' and nitrates = water change. Entire discussions we have here on exactly what level of nitrates was bad (if any) was out the window. Ammonia vs ph got a real blank look. Nice to know it's not just me that has bad chemistry

Second one was on feeding fancy goldfish and issues. This time he had googled some good answers and just needed a bit more. Got two useful tips across. Still nagging on a water test kit but he does have a filter now so great progress.

Is the tank too small - yep, it will be. I'm not a huge fan of small tanks as I find them limiting although I recognise many people make them work well. But baby steps, baby steps - the interest is there, he's learning and the fish are going ok.

 

[Andy Sager]

I get your point Andy. Point being, small tanks and bowls CAN be used, but they must be stocked appropriately. 9/10 times it's a new fish keeper that is not stocking it probably which results in disaster. Nano tanks are actually becoming a think these days. Search up the nano reefs that some people make only being a couple gallons.

completely IMO... Anything under 2 gallons shouldn't hold a fish. That's just me. Under 2g you can do shrimp or snails


Caleb

It's not really If nobody bought them them the company wouldn't make them. People use a lot of containers that weren't specifically made and sold for fishkeeping, lots of threads at TPK about nano bowls, vases, etc.

Is a better life for a betta a well-maintained 1g or the small cup at the store?

Not trying to argue, lots of good points here...just thought I'd toss in a few thoughts

There is a LARGE difference between people not taking care of fish when properly advised and people buying a "small " tank for their very first.
Most did not enter this hobby with full blown "MTS" and large aquariums or the knowledge to maintain them.
M you are way off topic here and have not considered that as "inappropriate" IMO as most of these setups are in the application most use them ,we all started somewhere.
It is not for any of us to judge a new keepers merit on how they enter the hobby as much as how they receive information.
I hope this helps you?
I am with Andy(surprised?) there is a place for small tank WE just don't seem to be able to control our behavior enough to use them properly.
You really want to the blame the people(Aqueon for one) who made my 180 gallon tank!
I don't appreciate that.
I appreciate people with facts that can back a good opinion!

No CB, I'm not surprised. I didn't type anything that is not factually correct I believe.

It's been interesting watching the guy opposite me learn the ropes of fish keeping. One thing I've been reminded on is that there is an incredible amount to learn.

First lesson on cycling was reduced to ammonia 'bad' and nitrates = water change. Entire discussions we have here on exactly what level of nitrates was bad (if any) was out the window. Ammonia vs ph got a real blank look. Nice to know it's not just me that has bad chemistry

Second one was on feeding fancy goldfish and issues. This time he had googled some good answers and just needed a bit more. Got two useful tips across. Still nagging on a water test kit but he does have a filter now so great progress.

Is the tank too small - yep, it will be. I'm not a huge fan of small tanks as I find them limiting although I recognise many people make them work well. But baby steps, baby steps - the interest is there, he's learning and the fish are going ok.

These all have points that I was trying to get out: The PEOPLE keeping these smaller tanks need to be better educated as to what can actually live in them more than they should be banned all together. But this brings up another sore topic ( for me ) of where we are getting our education from. ( I'm not even going to start that conversation....again ) Personally, I'm not a big fan of the micro tanks. Most of the fish that can fit in them, I believe, would do better in larger spaces. But again, this is my OPINION and I only give that when it's asked for. I don't tell someone they are wrong for doing it in the smaller tanks if they are keeping the fish healthy ( or as healthy as they would be in larger tanks. )

But I thought this thread was about the OP a Betta and someone not willing to be taught ( or not liking HOW they were being taught) ?

 

[Fishy Fever]

I agree that a one gallon maintained tank is OK for a betta but, everyone I know with a betta in a bowl doesn't change the water within a month. So people with the space, time and money for a one gallon need to meeting better living requirements than that.


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[Andy Sager]

I agree that a one gallon maintained tank is OK for a betta but, everyone I know with a betta in a bowl doesn't change the water within a month. So people with the space, time and money for a one gallon need to meeting better living requirements than that.


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So then, isn't the question more, WHY these people don't change the water in a month's time? I would have to think it's because they don't know they have to. If they were instructed to from the beginning, maybe they would.

 

[Stacey W.]

I agree with you Andy. Bettas in generally are chill fish. It's not like you're putting a school of giant danios in a small tank. As long as you know that a small tank or bowl needs more attention regarding wc's then your good to go. I have known many people who keep a betta in a bowl and frankly were spoiled and lived a long life.

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[coralbandit]

So then, isn't the question more, WHY these people don't change the water in a month's time? I would have to think it's because they don't know they have to. If they were instructed to from the beginning, maybe they would.

I agree with you Andy. Bettas in generally are chill fish. It's not like you're putting a school of giant danios in a small tank. As long as you know that a small tank or bowl needs more attention regarding wc's then your good to go. I have known many people who keep a betta in a bowl and frankly were spoiled and lived a long life.

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And both of these lead us back to OPs original.
It is not a small tank discussion really IMO.
If you know how to KEEP fish then the tank size only determines your timming,not behavior.
Being given help , and possibly even more infuriating to be asked for help and then having it ignored ,can lead many with wisdom,patience, or tact(I wish I could buy one of them) to calmly say "it is what it is because it is??".
Others would offer assistance and keep trying to help "the unhelp able"
Andy is way to kind(I definitely fall far short ) "maybe they would?"
I wish they would.
Stacey is right also .
Spoiled has nothing to do with having a huge tank for a fish that really does not demand it.
It is more an attention to water/life quality for the fish IMO.

 

[Andy Sager]

And both of these lead us back to OPs original.
It is not a small tank discussion really IMO.
If you know how to KEEP fish then the tank size only determines your timming,not behavior.........

It is more an attention to water/life quality for the fish IMO.

+1 to that

 

[sinibotia]

I will say this- there seems to be a general (but not 100%) correlation between people who buy bowls/vases for their betta giving them very little attention, and people who buy them proper setups being the sort to give them very good care. I think that's where this split in opinion is rooted.

To be 100% clear- I'm not saying anyone who keeps bettas in a small container(bowl, vase or otherwise) is a bad fishkeeper, just that good fishkeepers tend to buy tanks while inexperienced fishkeepers tend to buy bowls.

 

[SpaceFish42]

My friend has a betta that she keeps in an unfiltered, unheated 2 gallon tank, and only does partial water changes every few months.