Start over?

[LittleNami]

Ok, for the past month now I have been battling with my tank over a major algae issue, to the point where water changes are no longer fun. I have gotten to the point where I usually do 50% pwc every Sunday and Wednesday just to keep my tank looking nice enough to show other people. So, I will give you guys all the information I have, without pictures unfortunatly -_- I am hoping you guys can help me decide how to either fix this or how to start over.

12 gal tank
Lighting: 32 W 14" fluorescent light (also states: 10000°K/460nm Actinic)
Linketh
Temperature: hovering at 78 degrees
Occupants: 9 neon tetras
Plants: Rotala of some variety (green foliage), mini swordplant
CO2: bubbles barely come out one every 5 minutes Linketh Again

All parameters tested using Fresh Lab Deluxe from Red Sea
pH: 8.2-8.4
Cl2: 0
Fe: 0
KH: 11-12 degrees
GH: 11 degrees
NH3/NH+4: 0
NO2: 0

Fish Food: TetraColor Tropical Flakes
Water Conditioner: AquaSafe from tetraAqua
Fertilizers: Flourish by Seachem (only one used currently)
Flourish Potassium by Seachem (only in stock for just in case)
FloraPride by TetraPlant (only in stock again)

Ok, so now on with some questions and please feel free to tip in with any other questions, comments, or suggestions that come to mind beyond what I state.

1) My water tester is not very accurate and I want to be able to test minerals in my water as well, like Potassium levels and Nitrates vs Nitrites and such. What kit would be the best to use for this? Keep in mind that price is not an issue when a healthy tank is at stake for me.

2) Like I said, the algae is out of control like mad. The two varieties I have are hair algae, or at least that is what I think it is called. It is attached to me Rotala and can grow in massive clumps of a brown color that engulf everything, even getting my fish stuck. The second type is a surface algae, green, that is along my tank walls and ceramic pieces. What exactly is wrong in my tank to cause both of these? Lack of a certain nutrient? Too much light?

3) Right now I am afraid I have two totally opposing plants, the Rotala and the MiniSword. As far as I can remember, the Rotala is a lower light plant and the MiniSword is high. Am I right and for my current situation, which of the two should I keep and which should I give away?

4) When people talk about "dosing" an aquarium for fertilizers, are we talking very specific measurements or just using the cap here? Also, for my tank setup or what it would become by people's suggestions, what should I dose instead?

5) Where can I find more specific nutrients, like Nitrites or Ammonia, to use for testing or water regulation purposes? I've heard of people using Ammonia during fishless cycle, but how can I find those in an aquarium safe form?

Like I said, any help here is Greatly! appreciated. I am at wits end nearly and this is not what I enjoyed from when I had the tank for the first couple of months. Any little pointers beyond what I have are really welcome, I am very open to anything at this point. Thank you for any help ^^

 

[rich311k]

The bulb you have is a 50/50 bulb. It is half atnic which means you are only getting 16 watts not 32. In a tank as small as yours this translate to you have a very low light tank. The micro sword is not gonig to like that at all and the rotalas are not going to do much either.

I think by adding the flourish you are just feeding the algae because the plants are not really growing.

Next thing I see is that you are getting absolutely no CO2 in the tank. Your KH/PH numbers indicate 2ppm. Yoo probably need to change your mix. Has your PH been flucuating over time a bit? I would imagine that unstable CO2 levels and the flourish which the plants probably are not using is causing the algae problems.

First thing I would do is replace the bulb with a 32 watt daylight bulb 10,000 or 6,700K. The second thing I would do is figure out what is wrong with the CO2 system. You may want to add 2 1L bottles and do away with the hagen cannister just use the ladder.

I would get the AP test kits for Nitrate and the Seachem kit for Phosphate. Flourish sells a whole line of plant ferts. No need to add pure ammonia unless the tank is not cycled.

 

[Tong]

First of all, don't start over. Your tank may not look the best but I don't think it is really doing that bad. Its simply telling you your nutrients are off. Your tank has something extra in it and the algae is doing you the service of getting rid of it for you. I would guess that nitrates and/or phosphates levels are off.

1) Most people would recommend the Aquarium Pharmacitical(sp?) master test kit. Its nice but honestly the only test I use is the nitrate test. Usually algae and plants are just as good an indicator of nutrients as test kits.

2) I am unsure about your bulb but I think that is a pure reef bulb. It is eigther pure actinic and adding very little light or it is half actinic meaning you are only getting 16 watts for 12 gallons. In either case, your lighting is at a very low level. With this information I would guess that your nitrates are probably relatively low and your phosphates relatively high. Most municipal water sources have a lot of phosphate. IME, some low light tanks can not uptake phosphates fast enough to keep the nitrate phosphate balance correct.

3) Keep them both. If uptake is your problem, the more the merrier. In fact, if you can sqeeze more in, I'd recommend getting more plants.

4) Not sure about the dosing thing. I don't dose with Flourish products. I do dose with and recommend dry ferts from Greg Watson. Read the fertilizer sticky in this forum for links to dosing both Flourish Products and dry ferts.

5) Do not dose with either nitrite or ammonia as they are harmful for fish. Does nitrate instead, usually in the form of potassium nitrate or Flourish Nitrogen. You can find every nutrient you'll ever want to does from Greg Watson.

I would recommend you replace your current bulb with a daylight bulb of some sort. That should put you into medium light and help with your uptake. Also read the fertilizer sticky as it is very good. Get atleast a nitrate test kit and test your water and then post results. If you can, do the same for phosphate. Good luck.

Edit: 1 bubble every 5 minutes is worthless. It should be no more than 1 every 10 seconds or so. Fixing CO2 should help your tank as well.

 

[Purrbox]

Rich has already covered pretty much covered everything. I just want to add a couple of things to what he has already said.

First off there really isn't a hobbiest grade test kit availble for Potassium, nor is it necessary. It's nearly impossible overdose Potassium. A good starting dose is 10ppm each week. This can be a single dose right after a weekly water change or spread throughout the week. Up by 5ppm per week if you start seeing a Potassium deficiency.

Of course right now the Potassium isn't going to get you very far as you're tank is painfully low on both light and CO2. Until that situation is rectified dosing isn't going to help much and your plants aren't going to do much in the way of growing. In this situation algae has the advantage an will quickly take over your tank as you've seen.

Dosing refers to adding a specific amount of fertilizer on a set schedule. This can either be EI which aims to dose enough to ensure that nothing bottoms out, or dosing to specific target levels of nutrients. Both are effective, it more a matter of which fits your personality best.

Start out with Rich's suggestions for your lighting and your CO2 and then move into getting your dosing situation balanced out. Before long you'll find yourself with a tank that has beautiful growing plants and minimal algae.

EDIT

Also you need to make sure that there isn't anything in the tank that would be causing the CO2 to gas off. This includes biowheel in your filter, water splashing as it returns from the filter, airstones, etc. The idea is to minimize surface turbulance so that you can keep that precious CO2 in the water where you want it.

 

[JRagg]

Just an additional point (though it has been partially covered already). The hagen ladder is mediocre, but it should still get you between 15 and 20 ppm of CO2. The mixes only seem to work for about 3-4 weeks for me. As soon as you see the bubble rate slow considerably you should change out the mix.

A DIY CO2 mix can save you money as well. I run DIY, and will probably remove my hagen ladder, or pipe another DIY bottle into it when I go through my last Hagen mix. The Hagen supplies are too expensive.

 

[LittleNami]

Awesome! You guys have really given me spectacular responses ^^ This is helping me so much. You know, I find it odd that the actinic (sp) bulb makes the tank seem brighter, but in fact it is very low light. Funny how that works. I know I can probably get the light today, but as for the CO2, is it possible to use the same canister and just use my own mixture instead? Although I am willing to spend money for some things, if I can get away with just using that canister and just knowing that I will have to replace the mixture more often, I would do it. Its so great to know my tank is not a complete failure ^^

 

[Purrbox]

You can continue to use the current canister if you want, but really do need to get a second 1 Liter bottle going. You can hook it up to the existing setup using and airline T. This does two things for you. First it doubles the amount of CO2 generation, which will make it easier to get to desired CO2 levels. Second it allows you to rotate when you switch out mixtures, which will help to maintain steadier CO2 levels. Low fluctuating CO2 levels most often cause BBA, which is why it's important to keep the levels steady.

 

[fish_4_all]

I agree, don't start over. eventually you will get things taken care of with the great help that has been given. Just stick with it. Is better to deal with the little work it will take to get things right than to totally start new. Have patience and you will be rewarded.

 

[LittleNami]

Awesome, awesome ^^ Just a few minor questions that I had some difficulty finding on other discussions. Where would be the best place to find this airline tubing? Also, what would you suggest for a yeast recipe for CO2? I am ordering the new light set now that is a 10000k/6700 combo, so I am hoping that will help knock out some issues there with the new canister added on too. Here's to hoping *crosses fingers*

 

[Tong]

Any airline tubing will work. Most common is probably airline tubing used for an airpump. Some people will argue about how it degrades after a time and blah blah but when it does degrade you can just replace it. Should be dirt cheap and easily available from any place that sells fish.

Purrbox had a 1L bottle recepe somewhere. I hear its different from simply halving the ingredients for a 2L bottle. You may need to ask her specifically as I've never done a 1L bottle.

 

[Purrbox]

CO2 Recipe for Hagen Canister
3/8 cup Sugar fills to first line
1/8 tsp Champagne Yeast replaces Activator Packet
1 tsp Baking Soda replaces Stabilizer Packet (may be halved or eliminated if having production problems)
Tepid Water to top line

CO2 Recipe for 1 Liter Bottle
3/8 cup Sugar
1/8 tsp Champagne Yeast
3/4 Liter Tepid Water (top of label)

You can use the baking soda with the 1 Liter Bottle as well if you want, but it's optional. Without it you'll get higher CO2 production that doesn't last as long.

I also like to foam the yeast before adding it to the mix. Just add the yeast, 1 T of sugar, and a small amount of water to a small bowl and let sit for 30-60mins before adding it to the canister. This gives it a head start and will get the mix going faster with more consistant good starts.

 

[LittleNami]

Purrbox, you are awesome ^^ I think in the start I will use the soda just to see if that causes a good enough improvement in CO2 levels with 2 canisters instead of one. Yesterday I did a cleaning session for my tank and put in a new mixture, so thankfully today the bubbles are on the move again, but if I have to replace the mixture that often, I would much rather use this recipe. I was also contemplating just using a 2 liter bottle, but then I realized I would lose out on the switch of canisters when making new mixture and cause a flux in the CO2 levels, so that went out the window ^^

As for the light, waiting for it to be shipped now, got a confirmation on it already, so I just have to be patient now -_- Not my strong point lol. It should come mid next week, so when I get all that together, I will give everyone the update ^^

 

[fishfry]

A suggestion for losing CO2 on the switch between bottles.

Get a T-connector and two control valves. Have the airline from one 2L bottle connect to a control valve then to the T connector. Repeat for the other side of the T-connector to the second bottle. The third part of the T connector has the airline going towards the tank.

When you are ready to start a new bottle, connect it to the system and open its valve and close the valve on the older bottle. Remove the older bottle and rinse. When it is time to put a new CO2 generator on, repeat the process. In this fashion, you will always have CO2 being delivered into your tank without worrying about fluctuations.

Hope this helps.

 

[LittleNami]

Quite, but I am still reaching one issue despite all the aid you guys are giving me. Where exactly do I find these control valves and t-connectors and such besides online, and even online do they have it somewhere besides my usual shop center, liveaquaria? I'd prefer just to be able to get it online if I could, but I am getting a bit sick of the high prices that tend to happen with liveaquaria or the fact that those items are only with sets. Or then again, maybe I'm just being lazy and not looking far enough in? Very likely ^^ Let me do some hunting, I will probably run into what I need easily enough, but if anyone has a great site they are fans of and would like to get on the soapbox for, by all means let me know ^^

 

[fishfry]

Hi LittleNami

If you go to your local fish supply store (or even the aquarium area at WalMart or similar store) you can find them. They are not expensive, even including the air line. See the link below (it's a Canadian site but the images will give you an idea what to look for)

http://www.petsandponds.com/securestore/c6759.2.html

I use 2L Coke bottles as my CO2 generators. Through trial and error (try on the caps from water bottles first), drill a hole such that it is just smaller than the tubing you intend to use. You will have to apply a little force to get the tubing through the hole but it will ensure that you have a tight fit and thus no need for gluing, etc.

Check this site out for advice on CO2 generators. I use the CO2 Bell System to trap the gas. The 2L bottles sit on the floor or in cabinets and the airlines/Bell are all hidden from view by the plants in the tank.

http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html

Let me know if you have any other questions. My DIY CO2 system cost me approx. $10

 

[LittleNami]

Spectacular ^^ Thank you so much fishfry! You really hit the nice sounding note with that 10$ price range Well, as I said, hopefully once I get all the equipment in, I can actually find someone with a dig cam so I can get pictures to everyone to show how much you guys helped me out ^^

 

[Purrbox]

Actually instead of a control valve that you turn on and off, just use check valves. Still quite inexpensive and will keep the system pressurized while changing mixes. If you do get the control valves make sure not to leave them shut off on a bottle that is producing CO2 or you could end up with a sticky explosion.

 

[LittleNami]

Sorry for not replying for so long, but things kind of got upheaved with me. However, beyond the personal issues, I am starting to have success with my tank. I wish I could get pictures for everyone to see, but I will have to make do with words. I now have 2 1-liter bottles supplying a nice amount of CO2 to my tank, still diffused with the old ladder design from the Hagen kit. I finally also got Flourish Excel rather than the regular Flourish I had before. I also have the new light installed too. All in all, its working marvelously so far. My Rotala is filling in nicely, although I am still in the market for a low ground cover to accent it with the new red slate I placed in the tank to contrast to the black substrate and background and my neons. I will have to wait though since my finances are very low at this point, but all in good time ^^

 

[Purrbox]

Congrats. Sounds like you're making some very nice progress.

 

[LittleNami]

Well, back on the band wagon of aquariums once more ^^

Sorry for not being on in so long, but my personal situation has still been in upheavel for a while yet, plus its hard for me to get to internet access readily. But now for an update!

Ok, I am still battling algae, although recently I have been like mad it seems like. I still have the nice new lighting, which is wonderful to say the least. I also have the two 1 liter canisters hooked up and pumping out bubbles less than every 3 seconds if I make sure to monitor it and change it as needed. I no longer have my neon tetras, they all died. I do have 2 female bettas and one male betta now though, all of which are living quite happily. I also lost one of my otos, so I only have one now. I am hoping to get another one or two once our local store has them again. I still have my Rotala for plants and nothing else at the moment since I am still quite poor as is -_-

I am facing two issues though. One is the reoccuring battle with algae. I still have hair algae coming up in crops like mad, becoming thick masses on my delicate rotala leaves. I also have a mass blanketing green algae forming on my glass sides. The recent outburst of this algae, however, might be due to the fact that last week I forgot to change out my yeast mixture for co2, but I can't be sure. I also have a new form of algae, or at least that is what I think it is. Its kind of like a spider web, the way it covers over the tops of leaves, and its very dark green. I am unsure what kind of algae this is or where it came from, but I have a hinting idea it came from a recent supply of new rotala from my store. If you guys could give me some help on what is causing these forms to crop up and how to possibly get rid of them, it would be very nice ^^

I am also noticing an abundance of very tiny ivory snails all over my tank. I am not sure if they are harmful or are signifying anything wrong with my tank, so hopefully you guys can clue me in on that one.

All in all, I just need some help with those issues. Any help is wonderfully appreciated ^^