Substrate and lighting question

[splintercat]

Hello,
I recently bought a 29gal aquarium (30lx12dx18h) and am trying to decide which direction I want to take with the substrate. The walstad method seems to be the cheapest way to go (I've already got organic miracle grow and the old gravel the tank had in it), but I'm also considering eco-complete (more as a last resort kind of thing, due to cost).

I currently have a 10g tank going with wisteria, vallisneria, cabomba, bacopa caroliniana, java fern, anubias, hornwort, a tiny bit of hitchiking duckweed, and java moss (whew, it seems like a ton when I type it out! but I wanted to make sure I had all the plants ready to go for when I get the 29 set up). Do you think this combination of plants would work well using the walstad method?

Currently I have just a t5 light above the tank, but am hoping to upgrade to a finnex as soon as I can afford it.If you have any experience with these lights, do you know if the fugeray (Finnex FugeRay - Finnex Canada) would be a decent light to go with or would the ray II be a better option? (Finnex Ray II DS (Dual 7000k) - Finnex Canada)

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

I've never attempted the Walstad Method but it seems the organic soil might be best suited for it. Outside of that method, I'd go Eco Complete because that substrate is not messy, lasts forever, and its a attractive looking substrate IMO.

Since the walstad method states no co2, you'd probably be better off with the Fugeray. I have the Ray 2 and inject co2. Even my co2 runs out, i notice an increase of algae.

 

[splintercat]

Hey Brian, thank you for the reply! I suppose I would have to get 2 - 20 lb bags of eco complete to have enough for the 29 gallon tank (read somewhere it's about a lb per gallon)? Around here it's like $44 so I'm looking at the $6 I paid for this soil vs. $80-100 for ec to start this tank up. I'm just graduating from university this spring, so I'm sure you can imagine the difference that makes, haha.

And thanks for the tip on the light! I was thinking (and hoping!) that was the case... another more budget friendly option.

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

Well if your intent is to truly do a "Walstad Method" tank -- you have to use the organic soil. I believe you should follow her method to the T and not deviate from it in order for it work. I'm just guessing though, but if you Google "walstand method" and "eco complete" you'll see some arguments to not using anything not stated in her book. I haven't read the book so I'm just going by what I read real quick about it. I just wanted to comment really on the Ray 2 versus the FugeRay. But if you're thinking down the road you might want to try more light needy plants and maybe even start co2, you'll need the Ray 2 or something stronger. You could start off with a Ray 2 and lower the intensity significantly by suspending the fixture over the tank or using some window screen to tame the light. Then later you can lower the fixture or take off the screen to get full strength if you don't want to invest in more lighting. Just a thought!

Walstad method - The Free Freshwater and Saltwater Aquarium Encyclopedia Anyone Can Edit - The Aquarium Wiki

walstad method

P.S.
I totally get the budget thing... I'm a student too and money is tight! I just read a news article about how Canadian Universities are so much cheaper than US schools. And how US students are saving a bundle by going to school up there! Man... wish I did that now! haha

 

[splintercat]

Yeah I'm quickly discovering there is quite a bit to know about the walstad method before you should be attempting it.

I appreciate the lighting tip! I'll see what I've got room in the budget for... Also, this may seem like a silly question... but if my tank is 30 inches long, would the 30 inch light be the one to get? I've only ever used aquariums with the stock lids/lighting fixtures...

& Yes, school here is muuuch cheaper I've heard... But when you take 7 years to do your undergrad it starts to add up. I guess that's what you get when you decide to add a minor here and an honours thesis there. They say it's going to be worth it, though.....

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

Yes you should get the 30" fixture if you plan to use the docking legs for it to sit on the rim of your aquarium.

Also check out the new Current Satellite LED+ fixture. It should be good for at least low light plants and it has a custom color output I find to be pretty interesting. I haven't had a chance to test it out yet, but I will be soon.

(New) Current Satellite Freshwater LED+ Fixture (6500K/RGB)???

Just another option I'm throwing out there. The FugeRay, however, would suffice.

 

[Rivercats]

You can also use Organic Potting Soil with an Eco cap. I used this in my 220g.

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

^^ oh yeah... There you go. Best of both worlds! If you guys have Floramax up there in Canada for cheaper, its essentially the same thing as Eco complete w/out the BB water weight. Go with EC or Floramax as the cap.. Which ever is cheaper.

 

[splintercat]

hey that's a good idea. Rivercats do you know if its tough to separate the eco complete from the soil afterwards if I were to have to break a tank down to move? I was leaning towards gravel just cause I wouldn't feel bad counting it as a loss if it mixed with the soil and I couldn't salvage it.

 

[Rivercats]

It would be hard. You could easily get the top layer of the cap scooped off but what is right at the soil line couldn't be seperated off. A small mini dust pan is ideal for flat scooping. If you use a flat blade gravel leveler with a mini dust pan it's fairly easy once you get the swing of it.

 

[splintercat]

Thanks Brian, I think I have seen floramax around town I will look into it!

If I were to use ONLY eco complete (no soil) should I go with fine or coarse grade? The black seems to come in both, and it's out of stock in town right now so I'm stuck looking at online pictures which makes it tough to judge. I was hoping not to rule out corys in the future and heard the coarse grade could damage their barbells - though it seemed to be more of a problem with something like flourite that's rougher? But I also didn't want to have to worry about something as fine as sand trapping any gas bubbles that I've read about.

Thank you guys for being such a huge help by the way!

 

[Oohitsae]

The walstad method really does best with low light (so your t5 would best) and you're going to want to start out with mostly stem plants and about 75% of the ground covered in plants, so you'll definitely want to buy some more plants if you do go with this method. Also sand is preferable as to not let the soil seep through if you go the soil route (pool filters play, or black diamond blasting sand work and are cheap)

I have 6 tanks using this method right now. I can tell you that the ones with more stems have steadier parameters.

Also remember, once setting these up, you may have a silent cycle, but be prepared for a few ammonia spikes in the first month or two as the organics in the soil start to decomp.
I was alwaystold it'd only take 2 weeks, but I've had ammonia spikes in my 28 a few times since setting it up a month ago and I'm sure I'll have a couple more here and there.

 

[Rivercats]

As far as I know Eco-Complete doesn't come in sizes. I have it in all my tanks either as a single substrate or to cap dirt. I have 25 cories in the 220 with Eco and they are fine. Usually poor water quality is what causes cory's barbels to erode not substrate.

 

[splintercat]

oohitsae - thanks so much for that info! I will see if either of those sands are available here.

rivercats - sorry I tried to include the website but kept getting an error when I tried to post saying I had suspicious activity so I removed the link, thinking that's what was causing it. This is the site that I found that lists two sizes - Freshwater Planted Aquarium Care:Eco-Complete Plant Substrate

 

[Rivercats]

Well that's new! I'd say use the finer grade. That is what mine looks more like but when I bought it there was only one type.

 

[Autumnsky]

oohitsae - thanks so much for that info! I will see if either of those sands are available here.


Big Al's - Search Results for eco complete, I didn't check for shipping cost but the Eco is a couple $ less here.

Don't know if you have Petco available to deliver there, but they had a sale recently.

Here is a good pic of the Eco Complete I recently put in my big tank, it was just regular. Those were 6.5 inch Siamese Algae Eaters for reference.

 

[splintercat]

thanks for the reply! I ended up ordering the fine grade eco complete from the Drs foster and smith website and am cycling the tank now. I wanted to get some corys for my new tank and I think they'll love rooting around in it! Here's a picture of my 4-5in tiger lotus in the fine grade for comparison!
http://i.imgur.com/TBiUfbt.jpg
sorry, I'm on my phone so I had to do imgur instead of attaching the image

 

[Vermino]

[quote="Brain_Nano12g]Yes you should get the 30" fixture if you plan to use the docking legs for it to sit on the rim of your aquarium. Also check out the new Current Satellite LED + fixture. It should be good for at least low light plants and it has a custom color output I find to be pretty interesting. I haven't had a chance to test it out yet, but I will be soon. (New) Current Satellite Freshwater LED+ Fixture (6500K/RGB)??? Just another option I'm throwing out there. The FugeRay, however, would suffice.[/quote]Pretty much what Brian said for the Current Satellite, I personally did a review on it here http://www.redcherryshrimp.net/reviews/led-aquarium-lighting-reviews/current-usa-satellite-freshwater-led-review/ but if your looking for anything more than low-medium light than I would suggest waiting for their planted version to come out or getting yourself a finnex fugeray. Also I would look into fluval plant stratum, it's not a bad substrate but eco-complete works just as well =)