Can I throw my Canister filter away In favor of a Refugium?

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reefbound

Aquarium Advice Freak
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
385
Location
Pennsylvania
Hey all,Ive been doing a lot of reading about Refugiums and I see the benefits of it, but I have one question If I get a Refugium can I remove my canister filters all together? or will I still need them? also is there a specific size recommendation for different size tanks? ( I have a 75 gal)and should it be a Refugium/sump combo? on a side note I really think Im going to DIY with all the info on the net...I probably wont get it cheaper per say but look at the gained knowledge.
 
I wouldn't get rid of the canister, it can still be very useful when resin media is needed or if you have nowhere else to run carbon. They are also very good for added water flow. Other than that, just be sure you have enough water flow through the tank without it. What is your main source of nitrification?

Cheers
Steve
 
Well, I have two canisters that are going to be running and the sump/refugium combo I will be making only needs a compartment big enough to put a bag of carbon or any other media.
my thought on this is when I build it,Im going to build the weir to the sump under the main tank,It will go somthing like this- water inlet in the left rear corner with holes drilled with some live rock to diffuse bubbles then a over/under break with foam over the top to the Refugium over the top to carbon compartment or med room if you will then its over the top top the pump room and back to the tank...If you can picture that, Im starting this project this weekend so if anyone see's a flaw with my design please by all means speak up... by the way the dimensions will be approx 30"L x 16"W x14"H that will leave me enough room under there for the single canister... what do you think...
 
reefbound said:
Well, I have two canisters that are going to be running
Hopefully not as part of the plumbing for the sump/return line.

and the sump/refugium combo I will be making only needs a compartment big enough to put a bag of carbon or any other media.
Why not just use the canister filter?

my thought on this is when I build it,Im going to build the weir to the sump under the main tank,It will go somthing like this- water inlet in the left rear corner with holes drilled with some live rock to diffuse bubbles then a over/under break with foam over the top to the Refugium over the top to carbon compartment or med room if you will then its over the top top the pump room and back to the tank...If you can picture that,
Trying... :?

Something similar to this...? http://melevsreef.com/what_sump.html

Cheers
Steve
 
steve-s said:
reefbound said:
Well, I have two canisters that are going to be running
Hopefully not as part of the plumbing for the sump/return line.

and the sump/refugium combo I will be making only needs a compartment big enough to put a bag of carbon or any other media.
Why not just use the canister filter?

my thought on this is when I build it,Im going to build the weir to the sump under the main tank,It will go somthing like this- water inlet in the left rear corner with holes drilled with some live rock to diffuse bubbles then a over/under break with foam over the top to the Refugium over the top to carbon compartment or med room if you will then its over the top top the pump room and back to the tank...If you can picture that,
Trying... :?

Something similar to this...? http://melevsreef.com/what_sump.html

Cheers
Steve

The answer to your first quote is no,its not in line with the sump,both are separate.

Second, I can do that,but I was looking at removing both canisters,If the refugium has all of the bacteria and other stuff why would I still need a canister filter,Unless Im misunderstanding what a Refugium is...

And last, Thats the site where I got the idea to build my own weir and sump/refugium,very informative place
 
there is good bacteria and bad bacteria

a refugium that cares of all the bad things and provides many good things that you dont want to be filtered out by a canister or protein skimmer filter
 
pelochas said:
there is good bacteria and bad bacteria

a refugium that cares of all the bad things and provides many good things that you dont want to be filtered out by a canister or protein skimmer filter

So what you are saying is what I believe,I can unplug my canisters? Because the live rock and sand and all of thegood and bad will be filtered by the Refugium... right or wrong... If you look around at all the pics of tanks with refugiums and sumps all you see is a protein skimmer and nothing else...
 
The refugium is a great resource but it should not be relied upon as your biological area. It should be addition to an already strongly functioning ecosystem. The biological process is best accomplished in the main tank. If you have a decent amount of LR/sand in the main display, the canisters are of no use. If you only have sand in the main or a small amount of rock, I would keep the canisters.

Cheers
Steve
 
steve-s said:
The refugium is a great resource but it should not be relied upon as your biological area. It should be addition to an already strongly functioning ecosystem. The biological process is best accomplished in the main tank. If you have a decent amount of LR/sand in the main display, the canisters are of no use. If you only have sand in the main or a small amount of rock, I would keep the canisters.

Cheers
Steve


Hey Steve, thanks for the reply, I have a 75 gal tank with 40lbs of live sand,I have 80lbs of live rock on the way, There is a hob coralife protein skimmer rated for a 125 gal tank,and my two canister filters a Rena filstar and a Fluval 303...and Im going to add my weir and Im making the sump /refugium this weekend with about another 10 or 15 lbs of sand and a few more lbs of LR for the refugium...with that said I would like to remove the Rena can and Fluval, The sump combo's dimensions are going to be 30"L x 16"W x14H most of that will be for the sand and LR...
 
You should be okay with that, it really depends on the waste producing bioload. Ideally, you want about 125-150 lb of rock for a tank that size. There also it will depend on the density and pourosity of the rock.

Just remember that with the removal of the canisters, you are also removing some of the water flow so be sure to augment that with powerheads or the appropriate return flow from the sump. That will depend on what the overflow can handle.

Cheers
Steve
 
Right now I have two power heads in the tank rated at 300gph(supposedly) anyway at this point I just want to get rid of the Rena because its the smaller of the two and when I pick up another 30 or 40 pound of rock then get rid of the other... The idea of not having a filter in there is hard to get use to...
 
reefbound said:
Right now I have two power heads in the tank rated at 300gph(supposedly)
You will need something else then. Flow in a SW tank should be 10x the tank water volume at minimum, more preferabley. Mine is just over 20x

The idea of not having a filter in there is hard to get use to...
You will and most likely also come to appreciate the less maintenance required over the long haul. My tank runs with a skimmer, powerheads and LR, nothing more.

Cheers
Steve
 
Steve, will you be my mentour until I get this setup???? Please??? Im still building my sump/refugium, I have the weir built, all I have to do is buy a pump (any recommendations?) and plumbing to get the water to the sump and back...
 
reefbound said:
all I have to do is buy a pump (any recommendations?)
Depends on the capacity of the overflow you get. Also what the vertical height from the bottom of the sump to the top edge of the tank is. Will it be split off or a single return supported by additional powerheads. Are you considering a closed loop instead for additional flow instead of the powerheads.

Cheers
Steve
 
steve-s said:
reefbound said:
all I have to do is buy a pump (any recommendations?)
Depends on the capacity of the overflow you get. Also what the vertical height from the bottom of the sump to the top edge of the tank is. Will it be split off or a single return supported by additional powerheads. Are you considering a closed loop instead for additional flow instead of the powerheads.

Cheers
Steve

I've built my own overflow following directions from Melevsreef. The vertical hight is 3'ft 10"inches, I would like to split it so I can have flow on both sides of the tank,And no I have not consider the closed system.
The two pumps I was looking at are the Mag 7 & 9...I was also going to keep the return at 3/4 instead of 1" and the drain down to the sump 1"inch.
 
reefbound said:
I've built my own overflow following directions from Melevsreef.
Would love to see a pic when your done. You might want to confirm this with him but I don't think you'll get much more than 750-800 GPH though a 1" bulkhead. This would put you at the bottom end of the desired flow rate for your tank with the sump return as your sole source of flow.

The vertical hight is 3'ft 10"inches, I would like to split it so I can have flow on both sides of the tank,And no I have not consider the closed system.
The two pumps I was looking at are the Mag 7 & 9...I was also going to keep the return at 3/4 instead of 1" and the drain down to the sump 1"inch.
A MAG 9 split off will get you about 700-750 GPH back to the tank (best scenario). So with one overflow, one return pump and two return pipes, I would plan for variables and go with a MAG 1200 or Iwaki MD30RLXT instead and add ball valves to each return. This will allow for the most flow and control so it won't overflow the tank and you won't fall short of what the overflow can handle. Too little flow and you'll lose the siphon, too much and you overflow the tank.

Cheers
Steve
 
Would love to see a pic when your done.

Here is my homemade overflow and my sump/refugium...The overflow just finished leak testing and passed as did the refugium although it leaked in three places so I reglued and now its outside for a night of curing. As for the single line down and a mag 7 I have to go with the budget right now,I can and will add a second line down and then get a larger pump and maybe use the mag7 in a closed loop...
 
I think I may be missing somthing. When the water comes down the overflow into the 4"inch x 4"inch chamber that will be filled with LR rubble then it will drain into the Refugium part that contains 20lbs of live sand and a few more lbs of live rock then its over and under the baffles to the return, Help me understand what clarifies the water making it clear,what pulls the floating debris out of the water with no mechanical filtration other than a skimmer? am I missing somthing?
 
reefbound said:
When the water comes down the overflow into the 4"inch x 4"inch chamber that will be filled with LR rubble
Personally I wouldn't recommend that, too much chance for blockage and reduced flow. It's asking for floods.

then it will drain into the Refugium part that contains 20lbs of live sand and a few more lbs of live rock then its over and under the baffles to the return,
You don't want the overflow draining into the fuge portion of your sump. It wil create a nightmare for the water clarity/quality. Place it in the middle separated by baffles.

Looks something like this...
http://www.angelfire.com/ok/dog1/sumps.html

Help me understand what clarifies the water making it clear,what pulls the floating debris out of the water with no mechanical filtration other than a skimmer? am I missing somthing?
The baffles are the main thing that helps "settle" debris out. You can also use a filter sock/pads under the pipe from the overflow to catch it. Carbon will also help a fair amount. With a "planted" refugium in the middle, it will also help remove debris.

Cheers
Steve
 
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