Cheap LED's are on the way!!!

[mdaniel2882]

As you can probably tell by my last several posts, I am obsessed with LED fixtures. I seem to be one of the few that are interested in this but here it goes. I talked to the guys at Reefledlights.com and they said to expect the cost of LED's to be about 1/2 of what they are now in 6 months. If you are interested at all in LED's you need to check out this sight.

Reef Led Lights

They have a DIY retrofit kit that will cover a 36" tank for about $400.00. (a 72" tank would take 2) That is under $800.00 for a full dimmable LED system!!!

If you want to know how bight the LED's are in MH terms, each bulb is a little better than 12 watts on a good MH light. ( spacing and layout matters) 3/4-1 inch is a good rule of thumb.

It turns out though if you constantly dim and brighten you lights it could reduce their life by up to 90%.

Cree just released a true actinic 3w LED

It turns out there are some LED's made overseas that blow Cree out of the water.

Guys, this is the wave of the future. I REALLY wished we could get a decent discussion going on this one.

 

[ccCapt]

No doubt they are the next best thing in reef lighting, just like plasma lighting will be in a few years. Like everything else that's new the prices are, IMO, too high to justify changing over your lighting system if you already have something setup.

 

[Tank2379]

IMO-I still have my doubts about LED- I know they look sweet but I have yet to see any long term affects- Manufacturers have done testing nothing has proven to me that these will last years in a single tank. I would not mind trying these out as well- but I agree with ccCapt they are a little pricey.

 

[julmaro]

I want to take a closer look at the led lights in the underground Walmart's parking in my location. It is a hanging system containing about 20 led bulbs each lamp, I guess, and they have a bluish color to it and are extremely bright. If I could get hold on any information on those I'll post it.

 

[mdaniel2882]

No doubt they are the next best thing in reef lighting, just like plasma lighting will be in a few years. Like everything else that's new the prices are, IMO, too high to justify changing over your lighting system if you already have something setup.

I tend to agree with you if you already have a system set up but if you are starting a new tank, The DIY led systems are definately worth a look. This is where I am at. I was looking at spending around $800 on MH's (with a good reflector), T-5's and moonlights for my 120. At the price point for the DIY systems it is about the same and VERY easy to change intensity, color etc. You also have MUCH more control over your lighting. If I was(I am) setting up a new tank or upgrading to a larger and was going to buy lights anyway this system would be hard to stay away from.

 

[ccCapt]

Are you talking $800 for a DIY MH lighting system? If so you should look around a little more for parts. My lighting is all DIY and it cost me $25 for each MH ballast on Ebay, $16 for 95% reflective hammertone sheeting for each reflector and $55 for each bulb. Total cost for a 3 bulb 250w MH lighting system: $288. VHO actinic lighting cost $60 for 2 72" bulbs, $24 for 4 endcaps and $45 for a VHO ballast. Total cost of my DIY VHO lighting: $129.
Total cost for a 1070w DIY lighting system : $417.

 

[mdaniel2882]

Are you talking $800 for a DIY MH lighting system? If so you should look around a little more for parts. My lighting is all DIY and it cost me $25 for each MH ballast on Ebay, $16 for 95% reflective hammertone sheeting for each reflector and $55 for each bulb. Total cost for a 3 bulb 250w MH lighting system: $288. VHO actinic lighting cost $60 for 2 72" bulbs, $24 for 4 endcaps and $45 for a VHO ballast. Total cost of my DIY VHO lighting: $129.
Total cost for a 1070w DIY lighting system : $417.

do you replace bulbs every 6 months - 1 year? that is 225 every year in just bulbs. I am not going to talk about electricity because I don't care about that cost. but even if the LED's last half as long as it should you are looking your system costing $1500.00. even if you only replace your bulbs every 2 years you are still looking at just under 1000.00. not to mention if you want radium bulbs or electronic balasts.

 

[Magma]

LEDS will not burn out like tradtional lights because unlike other lights LEDS are Diodes and they have a much longer life to them in fact most LEDS will slowly start to fail over a few thousand hours. Fluorescent tubes on the other hand can just die.

LED's are rated for 35,000 - 50,000 hours of life compared to Fluorescent tubes at something like 10,000-15,000 hours.

Cost is to run them is lower, the size is great, they are shock resistance since they are solid, nothing to break in them.

Yes they cost a lot more to start with but once installed the cost will be much cheaper over the years since they will last easily 3 times as long as other bulbs will.

Problems with LEDs are that instead of something like a compact fluorescent is that instead of just a ballast, connection and blubs they need drivers, resisters, heat sinks bulbs... They need to have a little bit more going on behind the scenes to get them going which ups the cost.

Only reason I know about them is I work with signs, used to be most people used standard bulbs to light there signs, then neon and most recently LEDs. We installed a sign about 8 years ago now for a cafe here in the city and we havent been back to service the LED's once they still give off the same light. Some Neon signs we put up last year have been serviced 4 or 5 times already for fading, failure, and indoor signs using fluorescents well those seem to get serviced every 2-3months.

Then again tho this is all my experience from Sign installation and repair not from aquarium lighting. Personally if I could I would get LED's in a heart beat.

 

[ccCapt]

do you replace bulbs every 6 months - 1 year? that is 225 every year in just bulbs. I am not going to talk about electricity because I don't care about that cost. but even if the LED's last half as long as it should you are looking your system costing $1500.00. even if you only replace your bulbs every 2 years you are still looking at just under 1000.00. not to mention if you want radium bulbs or electronic balasts.

Hmmmm....55x3=165 not 225. I'm not sure where the changing MH bulbs every 6 months comes from. Sanjay did a ton of tests on MH bulbs and after 18 months you only lose aprox 20% of the bulbs output. I'm talking name brand bulbs, not cheapo Ebay bulbs. The biggest change in the bulbs after that amount of time is the color starts to shift more towards the red spectrum.

How did you come up with my system costing $1,500 when the start up cost, including bulbs, is $288? The reflectors and ballasts last forever and even if I changed bulbs every 12 months it's only $165/yr in bulbs. In 6 yrs I still wouldn't have spent $1,500.

I did say LED's will be the way to go for lighting when the prices drop more. I also said if you currently have a lighting system, like I do, it's hard to justify their cost.

 

[Jimbo7]

6 months is usually based on the higher output or overdriven ballasts. I think in a year or two LED's will really be changing the game. There will be lots of people who have owned them for several years not to mention the giant price drop.

For smaller tanks like my 12g, they are unbeatable. Cost is relatively low for smaller tanks, and I don't have to worry about heat or ever replacing bulbs. The selling point for me was being able to control the white/blue balance at anytime and getting a DIY controller to phase in and out the lights how I pleased.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Take a look at my thread here...I just went to a lighting seminar recently and got some good info

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...future-of-led-lighting-technology-134225.html

As for the cost, they actually cost less in the long run, because your fixture will not need to be touched for 5-10 year. LED bulbs to not "burn out", what happens is that they lose their luminosity over time, but it's a long time, and by the time you need to replace them, they're probably last even longer. So $800 now will save you $$ over bulb/ballast replacement no matter what fixture you're comparing it to.

A word of caution about 'overseas' makers of LED: don't use them until they have been thoroughly tested. We don't want a repeat of what happened with T8s in the 90s and make everyone say LED is no good because of some cheap manufacturer cutting corners.

Stick to Cree or Phillips for now.

 

[mdaniel2882]

Hmmmm....55x3=165 not 225. I'm not sure where the changing MH bulbs every 6 months comes from. Sanjay did a ton of tests on MH bulbs and after 18 months you only lose aprox 20% of the bulbs output. I'm talking name brand bulbs, not cheapo Ebay bulbs. The biggest change in the bulbs after that amount of time is the color starts to shift more towards the red spectrum.

How did you come up with my system costing $1,500 when the start up cost, including bulbs, is $288? The reflectors and ballasts last forever and even if I changed bulbs every 12 months it's only $165/yr in bulbs. In 6 yrs I still wouldn't have spent $1,500.

I did say LED's will be the way to go for lighting when the prices drop more. I also said if you currently have a lighting system, like I do, it's hard to justify their cost.

I was counting replaceing the Vho's too.

 

[melosu58]

Moved to General Hardware and equipment discussion.

 

[Apollo1K9]

I have a 120 build coming up and I and still trying to decide which lighting route to go, and at this point, I'm leaning towards LED, but I still need more research. Can anyone point me toward some good articles that could help me decide?

 

[ccCapt]

Feature Article: Quantitative Comparison of Reef Aquarium Lighting Technologies: Metal Halide, T5 Fluorescent and LED | Advanced Aquarist's Online Magazine

 

[Ziggy953]

Here's my $.02

LEDs are so new to our hobby that nobody really knows what it is going to take to support our systems. On another site a guy build a diy LED system for his 75g tank using 48 LEDs (1watt crees 24 white and 24 blue). After a year his system is growing better and looks more intense than it did before. Some people say you need tons of LEDs to light a reef because they wont give the spread and penetration MH, T5HO or VHO give, others say you need a ton because of spot-lighting. Personally I don't think enough time has passed yet with people growing corals under varying LED light to determine with any certainty what we really need. You can put together spectrum charts and spread analysis diagrams and scientifically come up with the magic number "X" of how many LEDs it will take to light a tank, but really all that is based on information we gathered from using MH, T5HO, VHO and other forms of light. LEDs are different.

Time will tell what works and what doesn't. The reason I have gone to LEDs is to save power, reduce heat, and reduce maintenance on my lighting system. The LED system I put over my 54g corner reef will be simple and to some WAY under what I should have to light the tank. Like the guy with the 75g tank I'm going to do this and see what happens.

Personally I want to have a lighting system that I can run off-grid if the power goes out or I want to just go green. Can't do that as easily with MH and the other lighting options.

Like I said, just my $.02

 

[MacMyers]

I also worked doing purchasing for a company that made informational LED signs as well as LCD signs for airports, highways, Hotel Lobbies etc. One older LED sign we put in the White House is still going strong after 9 years of constant use. I don't know what it does however, as they won't tell us.

LED reliability and longevity is proven. You can also buy kits and/or lights and transformers direct from China fairly cheaply. 95% of the bulbs sold by any other company are made there anyway.