Black rams !

[tunamanphd]

Sweet !

 

[Arthur75]

I think that is part of who I am ! When I learned my trade the 'elders' would ask 'it can't be done ,or you can't do it ? ' Some of us didn't age gracefully !
I learned quickly [ well they did have my picture next to "slow" in the dictionary for few years !] that I did not know it all and since maturing [a little I think] I find it helpful at the end of the day if I can say I learned something..
I honestly don't do much research for myself in compare to investigating others questions.. Part of how I grow instead of staying limited to just my own preferences..
I wasn't even looking for these . I don't go on face book and too many shops like this one don't do anything but FB... People who know me know...
In the same way I try to help people out with experience and good info somebody helped me out again !
I get by with a little help from my friends .

Hello Tom
Everyone does something different. You do Ram, I make shrimp. I have had orange and blue for a long time. It is successful. Now I have another tank for red shrimps. (sherry). It looks good. The ground fine white sand, surface some clouds of riccia fluitans. I see the small shrimps on the ground well. It will work too. I have a TAMRON macro lens for the small objects.

But with Bee Shrimp it is more difficult. From a trial, I only have pictures. But it was not a success. A big challenge. I research all around.

 

[coralbandit]

Hello Tom
Everyone does something different. You do Ram, I make shrimp. I have had orange and blue for a long time. It is successful. Now I have another tank for red shrimps. (sherry). It looks good. The ground fine white sand, surface some clouds of riccia fluitans. I see the small shrimps on the ground well. It will work too. I have a TAMRON macro lens for the small objects.

But with Bee Shrimp it is more difficult. From a trial, I only have pictures. But it was not a success. A big challenge. I research all around.

Good luck Arthur !
It is always fun when we get something new and have to work a little harder then we have been with what we are good at..
I am hoping these will be close to the regular rams ,but who really knows ?
All we can do is try huh ?

 

[coralbandit]

Sent Israel [ Danziger ]an email to see if they tell me their water parameters for breeding and raising..
If they tell me great if not I will do my bandit thing ...

I just got a response from Shahar Danziger himself on water parameters !
I am on my way with help from the creator himself !
I am ecstatic that my email was responded to .
He actually also breeds and raises his rams in different conditions .

 

[sasikan]

tank inside another tank brilliant !

 

[mbkemp]

I just got a response from Shahar Danziger himself on water parameters !
I am on my way with help from the creator himself !
I am ecstatic that my email was responded to .
He actually also breeds and raises his rams in different conditions .

Interesting! I am glad he responded. I am excited to watch you do what you do

 

[coralbandit]

tank inside another tank brilliant !

Necessity is the mother of invention !I didn't want to put them in either of my 3 empty tanks due to location and observation difficulties.
I was just surprised how well the extra Aquaclear 30 tube flowed the water that was coming in.. I had probably 3/4 of the AC50 returning in. I lifted the 2 1/2g just a little so maybe I got 1/2 flow from the 50.. This current made food move when I added it and created initial interest in eating .

Now these fish already recognize the man that feeds them ! They rush to whatever side I look from and then I toss them some frozen blood worms or daphnia..
They are eating pellets and flakes also.
Part of feeding a finicky fish 6-7 times a day is to offer small meals of different foods.. Each time they greet me they get a different treat ...

 

[coralbandit]

So I haven't even been able to get a picture of them in the 20 long and BOOM !
EGGS !!
I am not sure I have the water right for the eggs yet and the rams are still young and small. But the Alpha male and alpha female have decided who is #1 already..
Today I thought she had her vent out and was posturing with the male.
I was even planning on placing the 2.5 g in the 20 long and separating them but they have already done what is needed.
Blurry pic but all signs so far are looking pretty good IMO !

Although they may not make it I have placed the eggs in a dip and pour out of force of habit...
Alpha pair #2 has chosen the tray on other side of tank and the females vent is showing....Eggs by tomorrow for them I say !

 

[Kishore]

We hope that they'll make it. It would be so cool if you can successfully breed them in such a short time.

 

[coralbandit]

We hope that they'll make it. It would be so cool if you can successfully breed them in such a short time.

Thanks !
Barring unforeseen troubles this is just the beginning from I have seen of rams in my fish room...
I never would have expected them so quick but in spoiling and feeding them as I have it is 'conditioning' for breeding in its most basic form..

 

[Fresh2o]

I blink and this happens. You must be doing things right to get such an early spawn. Hoping for a good yield and many more.

 

[coralbandit]

I blink and this happens.

You and me both !
It is a very good sign no matter how this batch turns out.
Now feeling like a beggar with my last dime I will put a little extra effort into this batch if they let me.

 

[Angellove78]

That's awesome, even if the first batch don't make it. You already know you have a breeding pair. I'm sure it won't take long and you'll be setting up more tanks. Lol! [emoji6]

 

[coralbandit]

That's awesome, even if the first batch don't make it. You already know you have a breeding pair. I'm sure it won't take long and you'll be setting up more tanks. Lol! [emoji6]

Thanks !
My wife said " you already put trays in with them ?" Of course I did !
The way I look at it they come from pits in the sand in wild when young which is why I choose the tray for them to breed in.
I have trays even in my grow out tanks so a pair can pick a good spot even among a hundred or so of their brothers and sisters.
There are not many choices in bare bottom tanks so even little trays and broken pots can be all the hard scape they need to feel comfortable?
I see 3-4 pairs already I think.. Dan at Discus Madness did good for me !
Yes to more tanks ! Got to get next rack up this week hopefully.. I have 4x18 foot print freeing up but think I will build a 4x12 rack for 2@33 long and a 55 .
That's an new 118 gallons of grow out space ..

 

[coralbandit]

Found a thread on a South African fish forum from almost a year ago.
According to the poster [seems like a good ram breeder] says that the blacks did not throw 100% black / breed true . His observations is that the females were more black which is opposite of what I see in these young rams.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...irezi.28666/&usg=AOvVaw3RAsX6wUY7I6TN9lvcwtyK
The second pair looks to be posturing to breed soon? They defended the tray when I cleaned around it even though no eggs yet.
There may be a #3 sneaker pair claiming the tray in middle ?
Shahar replied again to a couple of questions [high praise for ease and openness to questions] and says that the fish actually may raise fry without issue in time.
So I hope to be breaking them up soon and letting some try to raise fry?
The eggs I took yesterday still look all good !

 

[mbkemp]

It is interesting to me how what appears to be a color morph behaves differently

 

[coralbandit]

It is interesting to me how what appears to be a color morph behaves differently

Yea I never even thought of it.
I mean my GBR have little GBR 100% of the time.
My EBR have little EBR 100% of the time..
I wonder how this can be my self.
My only explanation is that the breeder Shahar introduced wild or new blood every so often ?
IMO that is not how you line breed to enhance a characteristic..
Or the creating of this fish is not locked or complete?
I will probably ask Shahar ,but I don't want to bug him too much.
If fry survive I will ask him...

My buddy Rich who told where they were says he is not impressed with any pictures he sees on the internet..
I told him he is the man for finding them , I'll be the man if can get them all beasted up like my GBR and then add my photos and fish to the supply..
I am no biology trained person in any way shape or form ,but even if the fry did not look black it has to carry the black gene I believe. In line breeding obviously you would want to choose the fish that showed the most of your chosen quality ,but that does not mean you won't get blacks from the others..

I have AKC Silver Labrador Retrievers. They are a dilute gene of a chocolate that is silver color. Like most labs if they breed with any other color the sky is the limit and few silvers are seen. But if you breed silver to silver you get 100% silver puppies every time....Any puppy born to a silver no matter what color carries the silver gene and can throw silver puppies. Possibly the fish is the same , but even the blackest black aren't " true " yet? So they throw a fish whose color is not normal but not black?
There are Charcoal labs ,snow white labs and red labs that are variations of the black and yellow labs line breed for color. The whole gene thing is confusing to me but once I get it I understand it to that degree.

 

[mbkemp]

I would love to see a silver lab! Best dog ever imo

 

[coralbandit]

Second set of eggs are in my possession !
First set looks good still..
Both sets have small eggs do to parents size , age / maturity.
This will in turn provide for smaller fry . If they are born large enough they should be ok ,but if they are too small they will not have developed a large enough yolk sack and thus will not make it to eat probably or even if they make it the first 24 hours they will be to small and weak to eat possibly.
I have seen this many times with my own juvi rams so even if this is the case it will not be long before the parents can supply properly sized eggs. I just need to keep them happy and growing..
Either way all of this is a great sign of pairs forming and the desire to breed .
Better results than I ever would have expected so quick...
Mike I searched silver labs since none of my old pictures are on imgur and found my beloved Tessa among the public images..

She unfortunately passed last year.She was the most loving dog I have ever had and a great mom to two litters of all silver puppies.Surprised to see someone else posted her to pintrest..
I used to have a web page called Saratoga Silver Labrodors where I posted that picture of her.
Her name is letters that mean" Tom and Emmas Silver Sister of the Adirondacks"..
Emma my chocolate [Emma Moonshine Muller of the Adirondack] misses her still too today I am sure..I have her mate ,Riley and two of her pups Gracie B and Gia...
IMO the labs are the best breed going !

 

[Angellove78]

Second set of eggs are in my possession !
First set looks good still..
Both sets have small eggs do to parents size , age / maturity.
This will in turn provide for smaller fry . If they are born large enough they should be ok ,but if they are too small they will not have developed a large enough yolk sack and thus will not make it to eat probably or even if they make it the first 24 hours they will be to small and weak to eat possibly.
I have seen this many times with my own juvi rams so even if this is the case it will not be long before the parents can supply properly sized eggs. I just need to keep them happy and growing..
Either way all of this is a great sign of pairs forming and the desire to breed .
Better results than I ever would have expected so quick...
Mike I searched silver labs since none of my old pictures are on imgur and found my beloved Tessa among the public images..

She unfortunately passed last year.She was the most loving dog I have ever had and a great mom to two litters of all silver puppies.Surprised to see someone else posted her to pintrest..
I used to have a web page called Saratoga Silver Labrodors where I posted that picture of her.
Her name is letters that mean" Tom and Emma Silver Sister of the Adirondacks"..
Emma my chocolate [Emma Moonshine Muller of the Adirondack] misses her still too today I am sure..I have her mate ,Riley and two of her pups Gracie B and Gia...
IMO the labs are the best breed going !

Awww!! She's beautiful bandit! So sorry to hear you lost her. Bet you have great memories though and some great pup's out of her.