Pond questions

[Caliban07]

Although I understand that the fundamentals of a fish pond are similar to that of a freshwater aquarium i.e nitrogen cycle etc I just need to ask a few questions to see if I'm missing something. Before I ask. Here are the facts.

My dad owns a fish pond he inherited when he bought the house. Although he cares about the fish I'm not sure he is doing enough to give them the best home. Mainly because they were there when he bought the house and he doesn't quite know what he is doing. I want to help him.

1) he has had the pond for years
2) I do not know the exact volume but I'd say it roughly 6 foot long and 5 foot wide. I could calculate but I'd be guessing
3) the water is almost never clear.
4) there are 2 boxes one big black one which I'm guessing is the filter and a grey one which I think houses uv bulbs but they popped ages ago.

Can some one explain to me how exactly the pond filter works and how to maintain it, if the uv bulbs need to be fixed, how often to water change and how much, if water dechlorination still applies and if so can you buy bigger bottles of the stuff for ponds and is the API master test kit I use for my aquarium suitable for the pond or do they make specific test kits for ponds.

Thanks

 

[jlk]

Hi! I am answering from my cell so I can not go back to each of your questions but I will in the morning from my computer!

Ok, let's start with pond size. You mentioned 5x6- is it a circle, oval, square or other shape? Do you know the depth or can you measure the depth? Does it slope to the deepest area or is it all the same depth? From these answers, we can figure out an approximate size in gallons.

Next, I would suggest pulling whatever UV thing that was in there. It's likely corroded beyond repair if it broken/popped. If its very old, there may not be replacement parts available if it is salvageable. You will need to determine this.

The other black box I am guessing is either a filter of some sort or just a plain water pump. Or both. I would investigate to see exactly what it may be.

Pull out your master kit and run the numbers on the pond and let us know how these look! Freshwater is freshwater- it doesn't matter if it's a tank, a pond or a lake. Same tests across the board. If you have gh and kh, these will help, too.

In respect to some of your other questions, yes, ponds need care, maintenance and water changes (same as tanks) as they are closed systems. They have the benefit of natural influxes of rain and planted ponds have plant benefits but they are still manmade creations. Stream fed or natural ponds don't have the same requirements. Water conditioner is a must unless you are on well water. If your familiar with Prime, there's also Pond Prime which is concentrated for dosing large amounts of water.

That should be enough to get you started! Also, do you have any idea how many/type of fish in the pond? Is it planted? Ask any questions you may have! .

 

[Caliban07]

Thanks Jlk.

The pond is arch shaped. A rectangle with a semi circle at one end if you like.

I won't see my dad till tomorrow evening so I will be able to answer most of your questions then. I think the pond slopes down towards the square end of the pond but the depth is unknown at this point.

The grey box sits next to the filter both reside outside of the pond and there is a pump submerged that pushes water up through a waterfall feature. The waterfall flow has become very week of late. My dad said he used to stick the hose in somewhere and blast the sludge through and the flow came back but he says that trick doesn't work anymore

The filter from what I can remember contains sponges and wire brushes. My dad says there is a black sludge at the bottom but someone at his work told him not to remove this as this is where the BB is. Unlikely I thought.

First thing I will do is get measurements/dimensions and run tests. Although I'm not sure how to obtain the hardness parameters. Never done that before.

I know my dad just blasts tap water in straight from the hose without dechlorination. Not good.

There is a huge lillypad that sits in the middle if the pond. Takes up way to much if you ask me. Whilst feeding them while he was in holiday I noticed 2 fish that looked like koi's he had about 5 large koi's at one time but due to herons and unknown reasons they have dwindled. He has never added fish. Now I know that there are also some small dark fish that come up for the food but they dart for it then go back down. No way of telling what they are. There are also really small fish I can see nudging the food along too small to eat it whole. I honestly can't say how many of these are in the pond.

Questions:

Removal of black sludge?
Does a pond have to be clear to be healthy?
Does he need an oxygen pump?
Any idea what these other fish could be?

Thanks

 

[Demonknight]

I'll pass on the sludge question, but I would remove most if not all of it myself.

clear to be healthy..no, in fact most fish would prefer it not be clear as even though its man made the growth of algae (green water) is a good thing to a point. Too much sunlight and the water temps can get to high.

as for a oxygen pump it sounds as if its ok as it is, you have moving water to break the surface and a waterfall which will do that job once you have the flow back to normal.

other fish... could be tad poles (they look fishy early on), dark color with a fat front end.
only other kind I could see in there is if they added some kind of minnow to help keep the bug.mosquito's down

 

[Caliban07]

Ok thanks. my next question after I get pond dimensions and test water params, Should I take a big portion of water out and add new, treating with dechlorinator? My main concern is that, although my dad is following non if the rules at all. The pond seems keep going somehow and do I even need to start messing. The water is dark green but I can't help but think that the fish prefer the security of darker water and the cover that Lilly pads provide.

Do most pond owners strive to create a perfectly clear pond? Afterall, what is the point of having fish as pets if you can't admire them?

I would love both of your thoughts on what my next step by step moves should be.

Thanks

 

[jlk]

Let's start with the parameters and go from there. Yes, the 'sludge' should be cleaned out at some point as its limiting the effectiveness of equipment that's there.

Can you get a white cup/mug and scoop up some water? What color does it appear? I am wondering if the pond simply is dirty or if its an algae issue such as green water.

My guess on the small dark fish is that either they are some type of minnow/mosquito fish or they are fry.

 

[Demonknight]

most pond fish (koi and the like) will come to the surface for food so seeing them isn't an issue.
as for the water, depending on where you live and what they add I would say its fine doing top offs they way he is, after all the tiny amount of chlorine in tap water will be even less when added to a larger amount of water, I don't even always treat the water I use in my tanks if I have time to let it sit a day or two before hand.
A larger change over, say draining it halfway for cleaning/maintenance I could see adding in some.

 

[Caliban07]

Here's what I'm going to do. Test parameters. Clean out filter completely washing sponge and contents in a bucket/container of pond water. Remove water feature if possible and check for blockages etc.

Obtain make/manufacturer if uv box and replace bulbs to see if it is functional. I read this helps with algae.

Drain 50% of water and add new dechlorinated water. Dark I can understand your logic behind not dechlorinating but I would prefer to do so anyway. I may even trim the Lilly pad a bit.

Turn it on and take it from there.

I could really do with knowing how many minnows are in there as u believe you are both right with what they are.

Now another question. Say eventually I sort everything out and add more koi. What is the best way to prevent herons getting the fish. We live right next to a canal and heron are a plenty.

 

[Caliban07]

I meant demon not dark. I don't know how to go back and check once I have started typing. Apologies.

 

[Demonknight]

a 50% is a pretty hefty water change so I would do the same...and yeah no hurt to the lily pad to trim it up a bit..just watch for escaping fry/tad poles as you drain it.

as for the bird, not much you can do..netting is an option that either works or doesn't from the sounds of it..leaving hiding places will help. a happy to chase birds dog would work if dad has one LOL

 

[jlk]

Herons are a horrible problem where I live as well. The least expensive option is netting the pond. If you lay the net directly on the surface, you will not see it (they float) but as I have a ton of plants and lots of frogs and other creatures that call the pond home, mine is staked above the pond. Not pretty but beats losing fish any day.

I am curious to see how the parameters look in the pond right now so please let us know!

 

[Caliban07]

Will do. Thinking of heading over there in the next couple of hours but I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for your interest.

 

[Caliban07]

Ok bit of progress. Pond is 7 foot by 6 foot and 2.5 foot deep. Water params are as follows ammonia 0 nitrite 0 and nitrate 0 I followed the nitrate test properly and did it twice. I also know that the nitrate test is working because I tested my tank 2 nights ago. Ph is 7.5

The water is green with algae. Filter has stopped running completely at the mo and there is no flow from pump. Gonna check all that out when it's light.

My dad has been using algorem to combat the algae. Any experience with this. Is causes algae to clump together to be removed. I think it also acts as a dechlorinator. It can alter ph of water too. I advised to stop using this for now.

My dad reckons that the uv unit has broken. And that the guy who owned the house before said the other fish carp 'hybrids' from the Carp in there. My dad says they look like a dark roaches and they have red fins. He says there is definitely fry in there. He has 2 ghost carp some fantail goldfish. And lots of these other fish.

 

[Caliban07]

1 x fantail gold fish that was supposed to say

 

[Fishlover3578]

Herons are a horrible problem where I live as well. The least expensive option is netting the pond. If you lay the net directly on the surface, you will not see it (they float) but as I have a ton of plants and lots of frogs and other creatures that call the pond home, mine is staked above the pond. Not pretty but beats losing fish any day.

I am curious to see how the parameters look in the pond right now so please let us know!

If you got a giant net like for those golf places you could surround your backyard with it lol and have it muc higher up then maybe it would look better

 

[jlk]

Ok bit of progress. Pond is 7 foot by 6 foot and 2.5 foot deep. Water params are as follows ammonia 0 nitrite 0 and nitrate 0 I followed the nitrate test properly and did it twice. I also know that the nitrate test is working because I tested my tank 2 nights ago. Ph is 7.5

The water is green with algae. Filter has stopped running completely at the mo and there is no flow from pump. Gonna check all that out when it's light.

My dad has been using algorem to combat the algae. Any experience with this. Is causes algae to clump together to be removed. I think it also acts as a dechlorinator. It can alter ph of water too. I advised to stop using this for now.

My dad reckons that the uv unit has broken. And that the guy who owned the house before said the other fish carp 'hybrids' from the Carp in there. My dad says they look like a dark roaches and they have red fins. He says there is definitely fry in there. He has 2 ghost carp some fantail goldfish. And lots of these other fish.

I know you mentioned the pond was an odd shape so here's just some average calculations for volume. Based on a rectangular shape and an average depth of 2.5ft, its approximately 785g. Based on an oval shape and an average depth of 2.5ft, its approximately 620g. For dosing water conditioner, I would use 800g to play it safe.

Any type of algae chemicals are not recommended as they are quite toxic. Natural remedies for algae are water changes and lots of floating plants for cover to reduce sunlight. Barley straw is a natural option but I never found it effective and it acidifies the water. I am glad the levels are in check in the pond even if it appears quite a mess right now!

Well, the good news with hybrids is they should not reproduce which will help keep the population in check. Love to see pic if you are able to manage one!

 

[jlk]

If you got a giant net like for those golf places you could surround your backyard with it lol and have it muc higher up then maybe it would look better

That's what my breeder does (in addition to some large, vicious dogs)!

 

[Fresh2o]

That's what my breeder does (in addition to some large, vicious dogs)!

I had a problem with a raccoon once. Woke up one day to find a pile of goldfish scales and tails in the grass next to my preformed "pond" (it's less than 60 gallons so I prefer water feature). Not enough hiding spaces, too shallow i suppose. I now have a few rosy red minnows and a bunch of mosquito fish in there.

 

[Caliban07]

Thanks Jlk. You've been a great help. I didn't like what I read on the back of the algorem bottle and told him we should use the natural approach to ridding the algae. So I'll tell him to stop using it.

Next job is to trace the filter circuit through checking for blockages. And cleaning the filter. You haven't mentioned much about the benefits/importance of the UV lighting. Is this something you would recommend?

I'll try and bag one of these hybrids. How did they get in there though. Koi breeding with koi would produce koi is it that goldfish and the koi?

My dad is on the canal fishing this morning with my uncle. I'm going up to meet them later. Is it possible to have 0ppm nitrates in the pond then?

 

[jlk]

I don't personally run UV on my pond simply because of the expense. Many people do though and swear by it! It will likely clear up the green water quickly once its back up and running. No formal opinion on UV has I have no personal experience with it but many people are happy with using it.

If you have koi hybrids, they are the result of goldfish and koi cross (or a koi with another species of carp). It may have happened naturally in the pond or perhaps the prior owner purchased them or was given them. Your guess is as good as mine as to where they came from exactly!