Yes a little puzzled on this as well + prime would mitigate. What sort of levels of ammonia are needed to get burns? I assume it would be ammonia not ammonium that would be the issue? Thanks Pip in advance.
Yes, ammonia - 'free ammonia'
It is difficult to say as goldfish are actually quite tolerant of ammonia compared to many other species. Other factors such as low oxygen (as may occur in shipping bags with imported fish) will also determine toxicity. I cannot find any scientific explanation for blackening of the skin after ammonia exposure - only anecdotal explanation from within the hobby. High ammonia levels normally cause haemorrhaging of the internal organs and skin causing reddening. It could be that skin loss through haemorrhage and consequential sloughing exposes the melanin pigmentation that lies deeper in the epithelium. Haemorrhaging in the fins normally causes severe 'shredding'.
I have measured very high ammonia in bags of imported guppies, mollies and orandas in the past and you would expect the fish to be dead, but apart from a day or so of slight droopiness (not a technical term I know!), they survived!
I may measure more shipments as an experiment and perhaps post results. It is amazing some of the conditions that some fish are exposed to during shipment, yet we suffer comparatively few losses at my workplace.
Constipation may explain their lethargy. You may have read my advice to others about feeding daphnia.... live or frozen. Other natural foods are also good including earthworms (night crawlers do you call them?).
You seem conversant with the need to check water parameters and you say you test ammonia everyday, have you at any point recorded high levels of ammonia or nitrite?
I have been reading through your questions again
You say the tank went very alkaline - 7.8 isn't a particularly high alkalinity and certainly no problem for goldfish, nor is a temperature of 20-24F... this is in fact ideal for goldfish. Although ammonia will be more toxic at these levels, these parameters are also ideal for Nitrosomonas bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrite, so it is doubtful, in a well established, well maintained filter, that ammonia would reach high levels.
pH may have dropped due to bacterial activity. Your plants will also use up the carbonates from the water, so that may explain the slight drop in pH.
Poop is good, lol. I would still feed some Daphnia on a fairly regular basis as this is a good balance of protein and roughage. Fantails are somewhat prone to constipation and other internal problems due to the body shape, which compresses the internal organs.
Ok...i still am unclear as to what the issue is...all i know is that the water hs gone wrong... the fishes are getting sore looking red patches near their ventral fins and tail... Does anyone have an idea on what this is now???!!!
Just a thought -- was the tank ph of 7.8 straight after a water change? Just wondering if the change water could have been higher.
To me, it still reads as burns to explain except that I'm kind of puzzled why the gills didn't have problems. Just odd.
I think bacterial infection / fin rot can have red fins.
I've been reading through your thread and it does seem to be water related. Puzzling as that is though. Do you have an airstone in the water? It might help some. My goldies love the bubbles. If you mentioned whether you had one, my apologies, quite a bit to read through.
I would say that you are doing the right thing with the extra water changes. I can`t fathom what would make your water suddenly change so dramatically if your water supply hasn`t changed recently. The plants will not harm the water however, in my opinion you can keep them in the tank. They help with removal of nitrite.
Pretty stumped, are there any alternatives? Only other thing I can think of is pesticide or some other chemical which is pretty much stretching it I think.
Have you changed anything that may seem quite harmless - eg brand of soap you use to wash your hands before undertaking water changes? Or laundry powder - may impact the towels you wipe your hands on before water changes.
Or could there be another water supplier, as I know utilities are fairly well privatised in NZ, as they are in Australia.
Thanks guys for your replies.... I do have a fairly large stone as they love the bubbles too. I have put back the plants, and left the lid open.
I can't seem to think of anything that might affect them like this....and I have not changed any of the soaps/detergents etc... as I've always been very picky about how i handle these goldies... And I have checked with our local council...but we apparently only have a single water supplier...
I guess the good thing is, that they are still eating, however I have reduced the food quantity to once a day and I have only been feeding them NLS sinking pellets for the last few years...
The red on their dorsal and ventral fin areas has vanished, but they do not look happy at all.
I wish I could be of more help to you!
The only other things I can think of are:
1. Someone in your household has accidentally used the fishy water change buckets for cleaning, and left a residue of soap or chemicals.
2. Your water conditioner is off or contaminated.
3. There is a spray air freshener or bug killer nearby (one of those things that sprays intermittently).
4. There is something up with a nearby air conditioner (contaminated or musty filter?).
I really hope you find out what is happening. I feel for you as it must be very frustrating not to be able to pin down the problem, and upsetting to see your little guys below par.
Merry Christmas...!!
I unfortunately lost 2 of my fishes...and looks like another one is on her way to fish heaven...!!
The ammonia and nitrite levels are back to normal, and so is the temperature. The fishes are losing their black, but only 2 of them seem to be active and eating.