Bolivian Rams with Ellioti and Keyholes...?

[Fishy Smell]

How about;
1 Keyhole
1 Bolivian Ram
1 Laetacara Curviceps
1 Angelfish
1 Festivum
12 Bleeding Hearts
1 Rainbow Shark
6 Sterbai Cory
6 GW Panchax

Or if you want to keep it all SA, replace the Panchax and Rainbow shark with 6 Silver Hatchets and a Bristlenose, but it would be less colourful.


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[dalto]

How about;
1 Keyhole
1 Bolivian Ram
1 Laetacara Curviceps
1 Angelfish
1 Festivum
12 Bleeding Hearts
1 Rainbow Shark
6 Sterbai Cory
6 GW Panchax

Or if you want to keep it all SA, replace the Panchax and Rainbow shark with 6 Silver Hatchets and a Bristlenose, but it would be less colourful.

I would not keep angelfish with festivum. I have no idea why but they don't seem to like each other when they reach adulthood and in my case the festivum ripped up my angels pretty substantially. The festivum are also a top dwelling fish and stay at the top of the tank almost exclusively.

I have found bolivian rams to do best in groups. I have not had long-term success with a single specimen.

 

[Fishy Smell]

I've got an Angel with a Festivum at the moment and they're ok but are only half grown to be fair. I'll bear it in mind though.
Not sure I agree on the Bol Rams, the experience I've had with them is that if you have more than one they squabble and one ends up in trouble. When on their own mixed in with different cichlid species they are no bother, but still lively and outgoing.


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[dalto]

I've got an Angel with a Festivum at the moment and they're ok but are only half grown to be fair. I'll bear it in mind though.

Mesanauta species are about the stealthiest attacker I have seen. You almost never see them them doing anything wrong but your angelfish suddenly has lots of fin damage. I had to separate mine. Several others have seen the same behavior. For me it started with the festivum hit the 5.5-6" range.

 

[Fishy Smell]

Did they attack anything else, nipping fins etc....?



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[dalto]

Did they attack anything else, nipping fins etc....?

No, just the angels. The only other fish that spent time near the top were the keyholes but they were left alone.

 

[JAX3000]

Great stuff!

I'll use one larger school rather than 2 small ones. I do want to keep it clean and not blur the lines too much visually. For the same reason I'm not sold on a selection of ONLY single cichlids. I'd still like to keep a couple of pairs for a few reasons.
- As above, more impact with fewer species (I reckon).
- To see them colour up for breeding time.
- To see their behaviour (as long as it's not too deadly) at breeding time.

What about;
2 x Keyhole (1 pair)
2 x Bol Ram (1 pair)
1 x Festivum
1 x Laetacara Curviceps
12 x BH Tetra
1 x Ruby / Rainbow Shark
1 x BN Plec
6 x GW Panchax (My LFS have some in stock, I'm going to take a look today)

My thinking:
- The Keyholes and Rams are the only pairs, won't take up too much bottom space so them and the Ruby Shark should have room.
- With no Loaches or Cories I keep the BN as he has a job to do - he's my paid cleaner...!
- I have no Angel, in case the Festivum doesn't like him.
- There's no solitary Ram, in case that was an issue too.

I guess my biggest aggression concern is the rather timid Keyholes, so not really an issue...?

How could I fit any loaches in there and keep the Shark and Plec? What if I lost the Festivum and / or Laetacara? I've always loved loaches...!!!

Thanks...


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[Fishy Smell]

I think you would be fine with that stock to be honest. Make sure you get 2 males and 4 female GW Panchax. The females are drab but needed to get the best colours from the males which more than make up for it. Feed them a few bugs for entertainment, they are highly carnivorous and chew on bugs with great gusto.

The Festivum will swim a bit higher in the column. The keyholes get a bit snakey when breeding but that's why I wouldn't get too much for the bottom as they will claim a fair bit of the floor. Plus I'm a bit biased when it comes to loaches because I'm not keen and they can be nippy (apart from Clown loaches which I do like).


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[Fishy Smell]

You could get 1 male BN and 2 female, might get some breeding action there too. They're easy to sex, but I would try to get them over 3" as they're less delicate. If you put enough caves and stuff at the bottom you should have enough room for breeding BN's and Keyholes + a ruby shark and a Curviceps at the bottom of a 75. I doubt the Rams will breed tbh.


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[dalto]

What about;
2 x Keyhole (1 pair)
2 x Bol Ram (1 pair)
1 x Festivum
1 x Laetacara Curviceps
12 x BH Tetra
1 x Ruby / Rainbow Shark
1 x BN Plec
6 x GW Panchax (My LFS have some in stock, I'm going to take a look today)

I am not that knowledgeable with the Panchax but it looks good otherwise.

 

[JAX3000]

Ok, cool. I feel like I'm getting there.

I was at my lfs today and they had some 1.5 inch GW Panchax. I had completely passed them by until now. Even at that size they're cool as hell and I can only imagine when they're 4" long! I love them! Thanks Fishy! And yes, 2 male, 4 female.

They also had some little Curviceps. Lovely little chaps. One thing the guy in the shop said though... "The Curviceps are better in pairs..."

I could introduce a group until a pair forms and remove the rest of the Curviceps, then repeat for Bol Rams and again for Keyholes, then add the Ruby Shark last. This all may take some messing about, but surely worth it in the end.

If the Rams probably won't breed anyway and I stick to just 1 BN, there should be more space on the floor...

So my aim would be;
breeding pairs of Keyholes and Curviceps,
Mr and Mrs Bol Ram, (focussing on their carriers and not kids),
a Ruby Shark who knows his place having come in last and small
and a Festivum just kicking about with the BHs and Panchax
while all along BN keeps the whole place looking nice...?

I intend to keep a good amount of hiding places in the form of caves and tall pants, flat rocks nestled into safe feeling spots in clearly defined spaces for breeding, some twisted up drift wood and a soft sandy substrate. I believe this will suit all of my guests and give them a nice life.

Does this make sense?

12 x BH Tetra
6 x GW Panchax (2 male, 4 female)
1 x BN Plec
1 x Festivum
2 x Laetacara Curviceps (1 pair)
2 x Bol Ram (1 pair)
2 x Keyhole (1 pair)
1 x Ruby / Rainbow Shark

Also, how's this for a provisional order of introduction?

 

[dalto]

I would not do three pairs of cichlids. I have never had a problem keeping any Laetacara species as lone specimens. A single curviceps should be fine.

I would pick two pairs of those 3 groups. Laetacara species can sometimes be a little rough when they spawn so I would be inclined to pick the curviceps as my lone individual personally.

 

[mikem691]

I would not do three pairs of cichlids. I have never had a problem keeping any Laetacara species as lone specimens. A single curviceps should be fine.

I would pick two pairs of those 3 groups. Laetacara species can sometimes be a little rough when they spawn so I would be inclined to pick the curviceps as my lone individual personally.

I also agree with this. I had a single curvicep in a community with no problem.

 

[JAX3000]

Ok, so I guess the 3 BNs after all...?

Which gives me this

12 x BH Tetra
6 x GW Panchax (2 male, 4 female)
3 x BN Plec (1 male, 2 female)
1 x Festivum
1 x Laetacara Curviceps
2 x Bol Ram (1 pair)
2 x Keyhole (1 pair)
1 x Ruby / Rainbow Shark

All good?

 

[Fishy Smell]

That's what I'd go for. Agree that the Curviceps can be nasty if anything gets in their way when breeding as I've witnessed this for myself.

My GW Panchax are over 3", I'll get some photos later. I have 1 male 2 female but they're in my smallest tank, which is about 48 US gallons.


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[JAX3000]

Thanks I'd love to see that!


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[dalto]

I would just consider if you really want a trio BN plecos in there. They are pretty prolific when they start breeding. Dealing with the fry and the bioload they can put on the tank can be hassle. Also, if your are bringing them as algae consumers than they will do a lot less of that when spawning.

I think it will work, just a question of if you really want that. An alternative way to solve the problem is to not give them anywhere to spawn. Although, sometimes they will just make their own spot.

 

[JAX3000]

Thanks guys! I feel like I finally have an actual plan...! Pretty different from my original plan, so I'm glad to be able to run it past you first.

The guys in the shop are too quick to say yes to everything! If I followed their advice I'd have a blood bath...!

Re the BNs, yes I want them to keep algae in check, but if I have 3 of them and the shark helping out I'm happy for them to take time out for family responsibilities.

All I need now is a tank! Cycled! Long wait ahead, but plenty to research! Maybe filtration next...


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[JAX3000]

Hi, it's been a while and now I have the tank and I'm about to start cycling it. My stocking list remains as this...

12 x BH Tetra
6 x GW Panchax (2 male, 4 female)
3 x BN Plec (1 male, 2 female)
1 x Festivum Cichlid
1 x Laetacara Curviceps
2 x Bol Ram (1 pair)
2 x Keyhole (1 pair)
1 x Ruby / Rainbow Shark

...BUT, I'd like to add 1 fish. A single Sajica (T Bar Cichlid). I've read up on these beautiful fish and reckon a single would work out with these guys in a 90 US Gallon tank. (I referred to it as 75 before, but it's 90 US Gallons with about 6' X 2' footprint) could this work...? I hope so.


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[Freakgecko91]

Hi, it's been a while and now I have the tank and I'm about to start cycling it. My stocking list remains as this...

12 x BH Tetra
6 x GW Panchax (2 male, 4 female)
3 x BN Plec (1 male, 2 female)
1 x Festivum Cichlid
1 x Laetacara Curviceps
2 x Bol Ram (1 pair)
2 x Keyhole (1 pair)
1 x Ruby / Rainbow Shark

...BUT, I'd like to add 1 fish. A single Sajica (T Bar Cichlid). I've read up on these beautiful fish and reckon a single would work out with these guys in a 90 US Gallon tank. (I referred to it as 75 before, but it's 90 US Gallons with about 6' X 2' footprint) could this work...? I hope so.


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Where did you get this tank? Cause that's an awfully weird foot print for a 90...that tank would only be about a foot tall


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