Stocking advice

[nlifs]

Also, I followed your advice and thought about what we really want in this aquarium.

The conclusion I came to is as follows:

Peaceful community tank with hardy fish that are interesting, interactive and colorful but not too boisterous and also non-aggressive. Tank should also be moderately planted with low maintenance plants.

I also took your suggestion and searched (using AI ... a bit of an upgrade over your standard Google/Bing ) for suitable stocking suggestions, and this is what was provided:

- Harlequin Rasboras
- Neon Tetras
- Cory catfish (ChatGPT/Bing AI recommended Bronze, Julii, Panda or Skunk)
- Cherry shrimp

They also recommended the following as 'centerpiece fish':

- Bolivian Ram
- Kribensis Cichlid
- Honey Gourami (go figure ...)

Also quoted five sources as suggesting that these are generally healthy and hardy species ...

Funnily enough, all of the searches I tried indicated that the forktail rainbowfish I have are supposed to be 'peaceful' and 'non-aggressive' and suitable fish for a peaceful community tank ... as you noted ... "how's that working for you/me"

For next steps:

1) Should I remove/re-home the rainbowfish? If so, how?
2) What fish would you recommend (and in what order, if possible) for a tank with the parameters/characteristics I noted above?

 

[Andy Sager]

I hate it when I'm right about bad things. Sorry to hear.
As for the other Gourami, if the poo is white and stringy, that's usually an intestinal worm but if it's just a white casing, that's usually from lack of food. Neither Epsom salt or aquarium salt will do anything for either of these.

Nerite snails can live in either freshwater or saltwater and in fact, need to go into saltwater to breed so no worries about treating a tank with salt if they are in the tank.

As for your AI search results, it shows that it never kept these species in an aquarium before. Bronze cories get too large for a 20 high. Julii cories are not commonly imported but the false Julii are. The problem with them is that they prefer neutral to slightly acidic water and if I remember correctly, your Ph is in the upper 7s so they would not do well in your water. Panda cories, unless you get tank bred ones, have a bad history of coming in with intestinal worms or other internal diseases that don't show up until it's almost too late to treat. ( Take THAT AI!!!!! ) I'd wait for some tank bred Salt and Peppers and get at least 6 of them. Acceptable substitutes would be TANK BRED varieties of the pigmy cories. You can also get one of the bristlenose variety of plecos to help keep algae in check and excess food from staying on the bottom.

The Harlequin Rasboras are okay but if you can get them locally, the Rasbora espie ( a.k.a. Lambchop Rasboras) look the same as Harlequins but only get to 1 1/2" vs the 2" the Harlequins get to so are better in a smaller tank. The neons would be fine as most of them on the market are farmed. Other possibilities are False Penguin Tetras, Ember Tetras, Black Neon Tetras, Glo-lite Tetras or more cardinals. A school of at least 6 fish per type.
Other fish to consider are Zebra Danios, Pearl danios and cherry barbs. Schools of 6 or more for the danios and barbs but you want at least 2 females per every male on the cherry barbs. ( Only the males are the really red.)

As for that " Centerpiece" fish, that's a really absurd outdated concept. A tank doesn't need a " centerpiece" specie. A school of fish can be the "centerpiece". The only focus a tank needs is fish that swim in the top level, middle level and bottom level so that no area of the tank is overloaded while the other areas are bare.
And just to prove the AI wrong, both the Bolivian Ram and Kribensis are cichlids and if they pair up in the aquarium, will become very aggressive towards any fish that comes near their eggs or fry. Neither is a great fish for a 20 HIGH aquarium but better in a 20 long and with hardly any other fish in the tank.

You also have the option of forgetting about all of the above fish and going with a tank full of male Guppies OR male Platies. They come in a huge variety of colors and if you stick solely with males, you won't have to worry about the tank becoming overcrowded with fry. Also, male Guppies will color up even more when in a group to better attract any potential female that may be coming their way. ( Just stay away from the box store Guppies. )

As for good plants for low light and easy to care for, check out this list: https://memfish.net/23-easy-to-grow-low-light-plants-for-your-aquarium/

So look through the fish I've listed and when you decide which ones you want, I can list the order to get them in.

As for the Rainbowfish, you could just make a larger school of these and just add fish for the bottom level of the tank. Another option if the store won't take them back is to ask if you can place an ad in their store to rehome them.

 

[nlifs]

Hello again!

So the family was engaged in some lively discussions today about possible stocking options for our aquarium.

One school of thought was to re-home the rainbows back to the LFS, while the other group felt that we should keep the rainbows ... The latter group made an interesting point, in that the rainbows are the only fish that we've had that have remained intact (i.e. not a single death from the group) so far ...

Anyways, I wanted to run a couple of options by you (somewhat dependent on what my LFS will have in stock):

Option #1 - keeping the rainbowfish:
- increase school of rainbowfish (currently 6 - I think they're all female, so perhaps get a couple of males)
- bristlenose pleco and/or 6 salt and pepper corys (can we have both?)
- will anything else be suitable here, e.g. a group of platys?

Option #2 - re-homing the rainbowfish:
- group of various platys
- bristlenose and/or salt and pepper corys
- a schooling fish, e.g. 6 cherry barbs or harlequin/lambchop rasboras

One of my kids also really wants to try the cardinals again ... To do this, we'd obviously need to re-home the rainbowfish, but do you think it's likely that we'll more successful this time around? We have one cardinal left out of 17 that we purchased, although 3 died as a result of wounds from fin-nipping ... If we do try again, what about the following:

Option #3 -cardinals redux
- school of 10 cardinals
- bristlenose and/or salt and pepper corys
- another group of colourful and peaceful fish that will not nip any fins ... any suggestions of what might work best with the cardinals? Perhaps one of the rasboras or cherry barbs?

For any of options 1-3, what order would you recommend?

One interesting point - I had my water tested again at PetSmart just to confirm what I'm seeing at home. Seems like my pH has dropped quite a bit ... used to be 7.8 but now 7-7.2. Perhaps due to the relatively small piece of driftwood I added a week or so ago? My water is also very hard ... about 300 ppm on their 'report card'. Seems like we'd want to aim for fish that would do well in hard water?

Also, the link for the plants seems to be broken. Perhaps you could re-send? If not, what 'floating' plant might you recommend to provide some hiding places e.g. for the honey gourami.

 

[Aiken Drum]

If its a choice between the rainbowfish, tetras and rasboras i would go for the rainbowfish, for a few reasons. You already have them, they are doing well, and they are more suited to your water than either tetras or rasboras will be. Cherry barbs are a good alternative though, but i like the rainbowfish as they are something a little different.

I think panda corys are going to be better in your higher pH, higher GH water than salt and pepper corys. No reason they cant cohabit with a small pleco, they arent competing in any way, although your GH is on the high side for a pleco, but give it a go.

If this is the 20g you mention in other threads, a bigger group of rainbow fish, a small group of corys, and a pleco is going to pretty much be full. Id live with it for a few months before deciding whether to add a few other fish. But a few platys would be a good choice.

 

[Andy Sager]

I'm with Aiken in that the rainbows are there already and doing well, better in fact than anything else you've tried so far, so they seem to be a better fit for your tank and water than the other fish. Keep in mind that these rainbowfish only live about 2-3 years so that is long enough to get the kids used to caring for the system, feeding the fish, and the upcoming deaths ( even from natural causes.) Getting definite males and females would increase your chances of having fry that will keep the numbers up but to guarantee getting fry, you would need to be more involved in the actual breeding and raising process. That may not be the best thing to get into now before you get the actual fish keeping routines down pat. That would be my choice but I don't live there and have to listen to the kids.

You could add the cories and a pleco but again, only get the tank raised ones so that they will be better adjusted to your water. Depending on how many cories and extra rainbowfish you end up with, that will determine if you can get more fish in the tank.

For option #2: I would do the platies and Cherry Barbs so that you have fish in both the top and bottom/middle sections of the tank. You can also add the cories and pleco. You may need to add salt to the water for the Platies so you need to add the correct amount so that it doesn't effect the Cories or Pleco. I would do the platies first, the catfish second and the cherry barbs last then enjoy the tank.

For option 3: I would do the cardinals with the rasboras more so than with the barbs. With these fish, it shouldn't matter in which order you add them but I would not add more than one group of them at a time and wait at least a week or two before adding the next group ( after checking your water parameters to make sure they have settled after the last addition. )
Personally, considering your recent experiences with these fish, this option would not be my recommendation as these fish species are the most fragile of all the fish we've discussed so far.

As for the link to the plants, it's your system rejecting the link because I clicked on it from the post and it opened right up.

Hope this helps

 

[nlifs]

Thank you both!

I think we're going to try the rainbowfish option ... hopefully the LFS has them in stock. If not, I may add some platys now and more rainbowfish later.

Re. the corys, I've been reading up a bit on the Pandas and they do seem a bit more 'sensitive' (and I think Andy mentioned this earlier in the thread as well).

Are they the consensus pick here?

Also, one site I looked at suggested adding low dose aquarium salt (1 Tablespoon per 10 gallons) prior to acclimation to help reduce stress for any new fish, but particularly for the Pandas - does this make sense?

I had to type in the link for the plants manually but it worked now ...

Thank you both!

 

[Aiken Drum]

Pandas are usually captive bred, so arent so tied to the soft acidic water corys are found in naturally. Pandas are more likely to acclimate to your hard, high pH water. I keep pandas in this type of water, they breed, live healthy full lives, very rarely do i have any problem with them. The other side would be cardinal tetras. They also are found naturally in soft acidic water, but are usually wild caught and less likely to adapt to hard, high pH water. I keep both cardinals and pandas in the same tank, and see opposite results. While the cardinals arent dropping dead at the drop of a hat, they dont live as long as i would like.

I dont agree with salt being used to lessen stress. It is very useful to treat an issue, but i wouldnt use it "just because". Salt is toxic to freshwater fish, its just more toxic to smaller lifeforms like bacteria and parasites so can be used to treat illnesses because it will kill the pathogen before it kills the fish. Some freshwater fish are more tolerant of salt than others though. Some fish naturally live in brackish water. Fish that live naturally in harder water (like livebearers and rainbowfish) where there are higher levels of dissolved minerals will be more tolerant of salt. The theory with using salt as common practice is that the salt will kill off pathogens before they can infect the fish, and the toxic nature of the salt promotes slime coat, but it does this by irritating the fish and causing an immune response. Same can be said of these water conditioners that promote slime coat by an aloe vera additive. The aloe vera irritates the fish, coats its gills, and promotes an immune response to produce slime coat. This doesnt sound a good idea to me, but does sell product.

 

[Andy Sager]

Pandas are usually captive bred, so arent so tied to the soft acidic water corys are found in naturally. Pandas are more likely to acclimate to your hard, high pH water. I keep pandas in this type of water, they breed, live healthy full lives, very rarely do i have any problem with them. The other side would be cardinal tetras. They also are found naturally in soft acidic water, but are usually wild caught and less likely to adapt to hard, high pH water. I keep both cardinals and pandas in the same tank, and see opposite results. While the cardinals arent dropping dead at the drop of a hat, they dont live as long as i would like.

I dont agree with salt being used to lessen stress. It is very useful to treat an issue, but i wouldnt use it "just because". Salt is toxic to freshwater fish, its just more toxic to smaller lifeforms like bacteria and parasites so can be used to treat illnesses because it will kill the pathogen before it kills the fish. Some freshwater fish are more tolerant of salt than others though. Some fish naturally live in brackish water. Fish that live naturally in harder water (like livebearers and rainbowfish) where there are higher levels of dissolved minerals will be more tolerant of salt. The theory with using salt as common practice is that the salt will kill off pathogens before they can infect the fish, and the toxic nature of the salt promotes slime coat, but it does this by irritating the fish and causing an immune response. Same can be said of these water conditioners that promote slime coat by an aloe vera additive. The aloe vera irritates the fish, coats its gills, and promotes an immune response to produce slime coat. This doesnt sound a good idea to me, but does sell product.

Pandas in Europe may be more of the tank bred ones but here in the states, I see them in imports at my buddy's wholesale house all the time. In many of my travels around the U.S, I see more unhealthy Pandas than healthy ones. When I ask if they are imports, the common response is Yes. There are even stores that won't carry them anymore because they have such a poor reputation or too many bad experiences with them.
We have very different fish here in the U.S than other places around the world because not only do we have the farms here in Florida but Florida is also a main import stop for S. American fish. Asian imports are more fish that do not come from S. America.

 

[Andy Sager]

Thank you both!

I think we're going to try the rainbowfish option ... hopefully the LFS has them in stock. If not, I may add some platys now and more rainbowfish later.

Re. the corys, I've been reading up a bit on the Pandas and they do seem a bit more 'sensitive' (and I think Andy mentioned this earlier in the thread as well).

Are they the consensus pick here?

Also, one site I looked at suggested adding low dose aquarium salt (1 Tablespoon per 10 gallons) prior to acclimation to help reduce stress for any new fish, but particularly for the Pandas - does this make sense?

I had to type in the link for the plants manually but it worked now ...

Thank you both!

I'm pretty sure the Platy / Rainbowfish combination was not one of the choices you gave us. I would get more rainbowfish before adding any fish that is not a bottom fish. Yours are obvious a bit more aggressive because they are so few. Having a larger school of them would force them to be more concerned with others in their school vs other fish.

Most of the issues that wild Pandas have are internal bacterial problems so salt is not going to help that. Tank bred ones are like a whole other specie.

Glad you got the plant link to work. As you can see, there are a number of choices.

 

[nlifs]

Update!

Thank you both for your suggestions.

I ended up going to the LFS before seeing Andy's latest responses and I ended up getting some panda corys BUT the good news is that (at least according to the employee, who I think was a manager) these fish were tank-bred ... hopefully that information was accurate.

I also purchased 2 male rainbowfish so now have a school of 8 (6 females, 2 males).

Fish came home 2 days ago, were acclimated over about an hour and then added to the tank. So far, looks like the new fish are doing fine! I've attached a picture of one of my male rainbowfish ... they are fast and difficult to photograph, but quite a bit more colourful than the females.

Current tank stocking:

1 honey gourami (still surviving, somehow)
1 cardinal tetra (actually seems to be getting along with the rainbowfish)
8 forktail rainbows
6 panda corys

I'm going to keep it like this for a bit and wait for things to settle before considering adding any more fish.

The tank is decently planted now as well, although I'm thinking of adding a 'spawning mop' of yarn for the rainbows to deposit their eggs on to make them more comfortable.

I did have a couple of follow up questions:

1) there's one female rainbow that hangs around one area of the tank every night (only at night, after the lights are off) and just floats there, chasing away anyone who approaches. This particular female looks quite 'robust' so perhaps she's carrying a pile of eggs? Would these fish normally exhibit this semi-aggressive/territorial behaviour under these circumstances? If so, anything I can do to alleviate it (perhaps adding the spawning mop will help)?

2) another one of the female rainbows has been swimming right at the surface of the tank since yesterday. I don't think she's gasping but still touching the surface. I tested the water and everything looks fine (0/0/5-10) and there should be plenty of aeration (air stone in the back and HOB creating a decent waterfall). Should I be worried about her? Anything I can do?

Thanks yet again!

 

[Andy Sager]

Fish sleep in areas so if it's only happening at night, that's her " bed" and she doesn't want company. There's nothing you SHOULD do about this. The other fish will just have to find their own places to sleep.

Rainbowfish are top to mid level swimmers so the one skimming the surface is just acting normal. Unless you see gasping for air ( and if most of the fish are also at the surface gasping) there's nothing you need to do. If the one fish was gasping and the rest of the fish are okay, this is an individual issue and not caused by the tank so it would need to isolated and diagnosed for treatment. Because Rainbows are surface swimmers, you must have a lid on the tank to keep them from jumping out of the tank. They eat flying insects so if there were one flying just above the water surface, they would have no problem with jumping out of the water to catch it. Nothing says they would land back in the water should they do that. Momentum could send them flying. LOL

It's a good idea to stay with what you have until you get a good handle on keeping these all alive. It's always easier to learn with hardier fish than fragile ones.

 

[nlifs]

Hello again,

Happy to report that the pandas and rainbow fish seem to be doing well.

We're having a bit of a diatom outbreak and wondering if getting a bristlenose pleco would be the way to go ... I've tried a nerite snail but the silly thing has barely moved in 2 weeks and certainly hasn't done any cleaning (I smelled it and don't think it's dead ...).

As a reminder, my 20g high is currently stocked with:

7 furcata rainbowfish
6 panda corys
1 nerite snail
1 cardinal tetra
1 'pest' snail (I assume a bladder snail) that seems like tagged along with a plant. He's actually moving around and cleaning up some of the brown algae, so I don't mind him right now.

If I go ahead with the BN pleco, should I try and return the nerite to the store?

Thanks again!

 

[Aiken Drum]

Brown algae usually sorts itself out over a couple of weeks. When the silicates run out it normally dies out. Its a normal stage new tanks go through. Id leave it a bit before getting something to eat it unless you want a pleco, then go ahead and get one.

I doubt a pet store is going to take back a potentially dead nerite snail. If its not moving at all over a couple of weeks as you say its probably dead.

 

[Andy Sager]

What Aiken said. It will be a little unsightly for a bit but will go away in time. That said, if you are getting a good amount of film on the glass walls, that would mean it's also on the other things in the tank so a Pleco would be a good addition because the snail isn't keeping pace. If there isn't a lot of film ( a.k.a. Biofilm), having a pleco will only mean you need to add yet another pleco specific food for the pleco to eat or it may starve.

 

[nlifs]

In case it's relevant, here are a couple of pictures showing significant growth of diatoms on the gravel, decor and plants ....

worthwhile getting a pleco?

 

[Andy Sager]

It doesn't make a difference having the pictures. Diatom algae is most commonly seen in newly planted tanks and is often caused by high levels of phosphates and silicates. It's one of the simplest algae to get rid of because if you just give it some time, the plants will naturally consume the excess phosphates and silicates thereby starving it out. But if you feel you HAVE to have a pleco in there, don't depend on this algae to be a consistent food source.