???

[clowninround]

I went to our LFS, whom I have been going to for the past three years now and was just reamed for shopping online. We staarted out buying exclusively from her, however we found the LiveAquaria's sells the SAME supplies for atleast half the price. We've had many positive expeirences with them and even paying for shipping charges we come out ahead. Take for instance sweetwaters zooplankton, at the LFS it is over $10, at live aquaria, they had a sale for the same brand $1.99, 1.29 if you bought 3, which I did. Where would you go? So we continued to buy fish from them, just not supplies (when we did buy from her we spent a lot of money). Then twice I picked up fish that had brooklynella and when two of them died less than 48 hours after buying them they would do nothing. We listened to her about what was wrong with the fish and it ended up being bad advice until I came here and was able to figure out what the problem was and save the rest of my fish before everybody died. Needless to say, I stopped buying fish from her. Then we bought our own RO/DI unit because for one, they never had enough water and two they had phosphates in there water (which I was advised to check from someone in the forum). She got mad at me for listening to people online, said that they didn't have a clue to what they were talking about. Mind you, EVERY piece of advice I have followed panned out to be true and correct on this website. Such as elimating phosphates and nitrates for an algea bloom instead of buying all those expesive medications! Anyways, yesterday I mentioned that when I used my new RO system I got a slight whitening on the rocks and she just blasted me. She said since I bought it online it was cheap (didn't bother to ask me what I bought), and if I bought her system I wouldn't even be asking. She was really laying into me about buying online. I still buy corals, but after how rude she was, she lost all of my business. I also think that her point of view has no basis. I have had only positive expeirences buying online. I have gotten a lot of need to know information online and on this forum. What I want to know is where is she coming from? Isn't she a business like everyone else? I know Walmart doesn't get beeped off when I buy milk from Publix. You just go where you get the most for your money. Also where you get the best quality. And as funny as it sounds, I have gotten only healthy livestock compared to the 50-50 chance I get with the LFS. Is there a side I am not seeing?

 

[gear-head]

Nope. Bugger the LFS! If that's the way they treat customers, I hope Darwin will eventually take of of 'em

 

[xxmoorishmanxx]

i am sorry to here about your bad experiance, i hate when local stores compete so much so that they push the customers (us) in the back. I like going to local fish stores and buying and supporting them even though there cant compete with online prices, sometimes it is better to pay for good help and advice, if your not getting that i say good riddins to bad help.

 

[revhtree]

Personally, I buy all online now. All the lfs in my area are way overpriced on live stock, and supplies. I am not against buying from a lfs, but I am against getting ripped off. I will be on the lookout for a good lfs in my area, that will be fair. But until then my business goes to the online retailer.

Oh I forgot, the longest lfs guarantee on fish in this area is 24hrs. Liveaquaria, I think is up to 16 days. I bought starfish from them for 24.99, it was melting away as soon as I acclimated it. Called them up, and with no questions asked they told me I could credit my account with them, or they would put it back on my card. I chose a credit! Oh Yea, no TAX!

Anyway, thats my 2!!

 

[MattP725]

This isn't just LFS's... my friend ownes a hobbie shop that specialises in RC cars... he loses big business to internet shops as do most small businesses.... there is just no way to compete really because they get much better prices because of the low overhead. Some people are just better at dealing with it than others. Obviously your LFS owner is just trying to shun out online stores/resources because she is hoping to buy back your business by trying to prove others wrong. Obviously there are a few major things that make the LFS worth it and that is service, pricing, and knowledge... Your store seems to have none of them. Sad to say but some people just shouldn't be in business.

 

[MattP725]

Oh and walmart doesn't care where you buy your milk because they have billions of dollars... they are the #1 retailer in the world Just don't buy fish their lol.

 

[malkore]

Well, the LFS lady does have a point...the big chain stores and wal-marts really are shutting down a lot of mom n' pop fish stores...both the good ones and the bad ones. no chain can really compete with a good fish store for advice and healthy livestock...but price wise they can't compete.
Talking to my LFS owner, I know for a fact he pays a few pennies more for his fish nets than what wal-mart sells them for...same exact brand. He can't compete with their net prices or he'll be paying customers to buy them. He wants me to buy from him, but he understands that certain purchases just aren't going to be from him due to the price difference. I get my livestock there, food, filter media...but skimmers and lighting are much cheaper if you go online. Every sale to an LFS is important because they aren't selling nationally in huge volumes.
But her behavior towards you was inappropriate, and you have every reason to take your business elsewhere. My LFS explained his problems...yours ranted and vented their problems...not very professional.

 

[clowninround]

Thats how I felt too.

 

[MattP725]

Ya but service will keep him in business.... A guy that is knowledgable is indispensable. Walmart knows jack about fish. A $2 net isn't a major profit for walmart or the LFS. If the guy is a descent guy and knows his stuff you will buy from him just because of the quality of his service. I bought a bunch of stuff at petco a few months ago and I have had so many of their things die even with long aclimation times and great water parameters. Now I only buy from one of two LFS's that sell quality fish/critters even though they cost a bit more.

 

[JG]

On line order are always a sore subject with any small business owner. My parents face this with their saddle and tack shop. People order on line or ebay then expect my dad to make repairs. Or they come in and "brag" about the bargain they got on line.

My best advice - support small business when you can and NEVER tell them about the great deal that you got from someone else with whom they cannot compete. The small business guy is becoming an endangered species. Poor service, however, should not be rewarded.

 

[MattP725]

My friends shop is the same way... people buy RC cars from ebay and then want advice on setting them up from him. He usually charges those people but guys that buy from him get discounts on parts and service. He accepts when people buy things he doesn't offer from other vendors but obviously he doesn't like when people want his help on items that they bought used and or damaged from ebay.

 

[clowninround]

Thats the thing, I'm not even sure she knew how I got my RO system online. The only time I mentioned to her about anything online was when I was getting conflicting advice. Ever since then she had it out for me on that. She had been trying to sell me rid-ick and I was told specifically why this would not work and my fish didn't have ick (which she was sure they did, without looking at them). I was there to buy formalin to treat my fish for brooklynella, which saved their little lifes after buying a fish from her that was sick. Quarryshark had helped me threw it and I have no problems since. That was a while back though and ever since then she assumes all my thinking and purchases come from online. I thought it was really big of her to assume such a thing, even though she was right

 

[revhtree]

In my earlier post, I should have said alot more to the effect of supporting your lfs. I will support a store, that is fair. I do not mind paying a little more at a lfs for products, and get good advice, and someone I can actually talk too. My problem is that most lfs in my area jack prices up to ridiculous levels, trying to take advantage of your lack of knowledge. Been their done that.

If you have a lfs you are pleased with, then by all means support it. I would rather shop in my home town, and interact with someone, but for this area, it's not going to happen.

PS. I have found a store about 20 min from my house that has GREAT prices on corals. They are my new coral supplier!

 

[clowninround]

Thats a good point though, I obvoiusly didn't buy the ro unit from her. Didn't really think of that. But there was no reason to talk to me the way she did, like I say, I have been going to her for years.

 

[quarryshark]

My wife and I have a small business and going on the net helped to save us. Without the online business, I think we would have gone down a long time ago. With the online sales, we have grown more than I ever thought we would. Thats why I'm on this computer all the time.
Another school of thought, why not encourage them to get on the net and compete with these people? Beat the competition with service. With more volume comes lower wholesale prices.
Just another angle.

 

[grimlock3000]

My best advice - support small business when you can and NEVER tell them about the great deal that you got from someone else with whom they cannot compete.

Why the heck not? I have had a LFSs try to sell me a filter for $70, I kindly said I would rather not spend that much and ask for a discount if possible. Then I get a reply of, "Well, that is how much they cost, you can not find it cheaper anywhere else". Then I replied with, "Well, that is how much you charge for them. I could buy it online for $23". LFSs need to be aware of what they are up against. Being ignorant does not help them. This trend is not going to turn around any time soon.

LFSs need to compete on SERVICE, not PRICE. A few places I have been to are trying to keep their business by trashing on online wholesalers to encourage me to shop in their store. Apparently, all stuff sold over the internet is low quality or knock offs. Ignoranty trashing on online retailers is one quick way to make an intelligent shopper never go to that LFS again, and they do not realize it. I spend a lot of money online for hardware, but I also spend quite a bit locally for livestock, food, substrate, bulbs... I only support the LFSs who provide me with good information and give me a reason to go back there.

I was in a LFS a few months ago have an argument with an idiot salesperson. They asked where I got my information and I told them this website. The salesperson was like, "See, that is your problem, those people would probably try to tell you to pour bleech in the tank to clean it" Then I basically told them they were stupid and I hope they get fired and have to flip burgers.

Anyway, there are very good ways for LFS to keep up. A new marine-only place opened close to where I work. They have a ton of fish in nice tanks, but not much tank hardware. They also stock a lot of test kits and tank cleaning tools along with food items. Those are all things that are impulse purchases and sometimes not convient to get online. The owner knows for a fact that she is not going to win any type of price war, so she keeps the stock low on those items like filters and heaters. Also, they will order you just about any livestock you can imagine and have it shipped directly to them for pick up. Most LFS will do this if you ask, but some are hesitant about it. Any kind of tank you want can be delivered in about a week as well. Oh, and they started carrying a selection of frozen and refridgerated foods. They are the only place in the state that sell DTs Plankton. Getting this online would usually cost me a $25 shipping fee, now I have another reason to go to the LFS instead...

 

[reefrunner69]

Why the heck not?

Because they cannot afford to buy the volume the online vendor does to get the discount. The more you buy, the less it costs, a small store neither has the capital nor the space to store the volume that the huge chain stores do, also alot of the online vendors are buying straight from the manufacturer, because of the volume they are buying. FWIW, for the most part, my LFS is competitive in livestock price.

 

[blorkiemom]

Can I go on my "Why I won't shop at WalMart" tangent?

But really, I'll pay a little more for good service and advice. But, generally speaking, I don't get either from LFS around here. They want to sell me stuff I don't need (like wet/dry filters and cheap junky skimmers), they tell me they have something in stock but don't when I drive all the way down there, their fish are often covered in ick, they give me bad advice (cycle with damsels) . . . and they don't charge a little more for something, but a lot more. I paid under $80 for my Mag 9.5 online . . . . one LFS had the same pump for--ready?--$229. What the . . . ?

There is one good store in my area, but it's a real mom-and-pop thing and there's just not much in there. I do shop for little stuff locally--nets and food and odds and ends. But I do online as much as possible, at least until I find a shop that really seems to a) want my business, b) give me decent advice, and c) charge reasonable (not the cheapest) prices.

 

[grimlock3000]

Because they cannot afford to buy the volume the online vendor does to get the discount.

You minsunderstood what I meant. I mean why NOT tell them you can get it cheaper elsewhere if they bring it up? LFSs need to accept the fact that they can not compete with wholesalers on some products and find other ways to make money. I have seen shops do it right and wrong. Trying to brainwash people into thinking that internet good are lower quality is the wrong way. Offering services and convenience that the internet can not offer are the right way.

 

[reefrunner69]

I mean why NOT tell them you can get it cheaper elsewhere if they bring it up?

For me it's simple, I don't want to hear their story about their overhead and blah blah blah, I'm not insensitive to them, I just already know it and don't want to hear it again. I support them when I can. I will not buy online to save a few bucks, but if the savings is substantial...I buy it online.