5 Orandas turning black!!!

[cecejay]

I have 5 gold orandas in a 300L tank and now they are all turning black. It started with their fins and now is moving all over their bodies.
Ammonia and nitrates levels are normal.

I have done a 25-50% water change, and it seems to be getting worse. The tap water seems to have high pH (alkaline is 7.8) and that's when I noticed the burns, I added pH down and it is now neutral.

I have 1 black moor who is extremely healthy, but now is slowly turning grey-ish.

They are eating just fine...but it's freaking me out!!! HELP!!!

 

[Brookster123]

How old/established is the tank? What are your water parameters?

 

[cecejay]

How old/established is the tank? What are your water parameters?

We upgraded them to the 300L tank last year... and the water temperature is 20 degrees, ammonia and nitrates are zero.

The pH levels did increase very alkaline (7.8), but added pH down and also added plants.

But, the problem seems to be getting worse everyday.

 

[Brookster123]

I'm not really familiar with these fish, did the deterioration of health begin before/after adding the ph down?are you using a tap water conditioner?

 

[cecejay]

These goldfish were absolutely fine for the last 1 year or so, and then one of them developed a black patch on the fin and we did a water change, as we do every week, usually 25-50% and the condition did not go away.

Our water supply was fine, until 2 weeks ago where we detected the pH levels were really alkaline (7.8). I then added pH down and I test the water everyday for ammonia, nitrates and pH and everything seems normal, but the fishes are turning black. We add prime everytime we do a water change.

 

[cecejay]

So, the condition did get worse before we added the pH down.

 

[Brookster123]

Ok so seems like it's something bacterial or parasitic maybe? I'm really no expert, you'll have to be patient and hope one of the Super aquarists catch this thread and weigh in here, best of luck! Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

 

[cecejay]

Oh, thank you for your help I really hope someone is able to pick this up. I really do not want any of the fishes to die.

 

[Brookster123]

Keep up on water changes! That's your best hope until you know more..

 

[laurieb]

Goldfish can turn black due to a normal color change, which does happen but is more of a gradual change. They will also turn black is they get burned by either high ammonia levels or high kh levels. If you haven't checked your kh and gh levels I would recommend that you do so since the kh is probably what burned your fish since you said your ammonia was fine. These parameters are also known as carbonate hardness. The api 5 in one strips measure kh and gh or you can get tests for just those 2 params.

 

[cecejay]

Thanks for that. We have not checked thr kh or gh levels as we presumed that we did not need to as we have never had issues with hardness of water.

Do you have ideas on what I need to do if the kh or gh is high?

 

[laurieb]

You're welcome. You can use vinegar to bring it down. I'll have to look up the amount that you would need to add.
In the interim small frequent water changes would be best to help the burns heal.

 

[cecejay]

Yeah, I guess we will continue the water changes. It would be really appreciated if you could let me know the levels of vinegar to add.
The fish are extremely healthy and active, so it's a bit of a worry as the orange oranda is almost black and the white one seems to be going pink, like a really bad burn.

 

[laurieb]

To lower the kh you would add 1/8 teaspoon of vinegar to treated fresh water. Then retest and add another 1/8 teaspoon of it's still too high. Don't add it directly to the tank, always mix with the pretreated water. You also have to check your ph because it can lower it in the process.

 

[twiddlemuffin]

I asked a guy at a LFS a few years back about my goldfish turning black and he said that meant it was stressed.

 

[laurieb]

I have read that you can use a solution of pure aloe to treat the burns but I haven't tried it. When my guys got burned I just did small water changes every day and they healed pretty quickly.

 

[cecejay]

Oh, right... I'm going to check the water, as I've understood that our council water supply has also added flouride, but not sure if that affects the fishes.

I have also been adding melafix to help them heal, and was also wondering if too many live plants may be the reason. We did add a few more plants, but would that affect them?

 

[laurieb]

The plants would have nothing to do with it but the melafix sure does!!! That is a powerful med which can burn your fish if it is overused. I would stop using that right now and do lots of frequent water changes to get rid of it. The melafix is probably just making the burns worse.
I'm not sure about flouride but I know that it is in my water and in many other peoples so I wouldn't think that it would be a factor.

 

[jlk]

Hi again!

Ok, all of your fish are exhibiting obvious signs of chemical burns (including the moor). Most typically, this is caused by high ammonia levels but it can be caused by other chemicals as well. Definitely not normal color change but the result of something amiss in the tank. Your ph is not a big issue right now and actually I would prefer to see it in the mid to high 7's but we are not going to worry about this because this is not the cause of your issues. High KH and GH (hard, alkaline water) is actually the best for goldfish health and water would have to be excessively alkaline to even create minor issues. Acidic water is much greater concern and is responsible for much greater problems.

So, let's start with basics. What actually are you using to test your water (liquid or strips)? What are your exact numbers for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and ph for both your tank and your tap? What additives do you use (brand of water conditioner, any other chemicals added such as salt, etc)? Have you added or changed anything (décor, substrate, filter media, etc)? Used any chemicals or sprays in this room or nearby rooms (aerosols, flea products, carpet cleaners, disinfectants, etc)?

I saw that you mentioned melafix (this will not help and may be creating further problems) and adding live plants. Live plants will not affect anything unless you dipped them in something caustic before adding them. Did you add the melafix before the burns or afterwards?

Once we have a better idea of what is going on here, we can make further suggestions!

 

[Delapool]

Perhaps some pics too if possible.