8g dirt tank questions

[Pezzep]

So I'm turning my 8g that used to house my cherries into a dirted heavily planted betta tank with a different species of shrimp, probably yellow neocaridinas and tiger shrimp or bee shrimp. Wanted to ask if you 100% have to cap the dirt or will it eventually settle on its own after a while? Cause I didn't know it would float at first and I threw the dirt in with a little water in the tank...made for a big mess.

I used miracle grow organic potting soil, I've read that some people add red clay and such to it, is this necessary? Do any of you that have done dirted tanks add red clay and what are the benefits of doing so?

Also wanted to get an opinion on lighting for the tank I want to have high light and am looking for a decently priced fixture that will achieve this for my tank. I'd prefer LED but anything really will do as long as it's high or on the high end of medium light. The tank is 12.6 inches high if that helps decide with lighting at all.

Also taking any recommendations on plants if people just want to throw out names of their favourite plants to look at that would be great. I have some plants in mind but the more options I have the better. Will be dosing ferts and liquid carbon.

Here's a pic of what I got so far.

Have a moss ball I'm going to rip up and attach to the branches to try and get a tree look going, which I assume will take a very long time as I've read the type of moss that makes up moss balls is very slow growing, correct me if im wrong. The front area will be filled with pool filter sand with some rocks to break up the two substrates. Thanks for taking the time to read my ramblings.

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

What are the dimensions of the cube? Medium to high light is attainable from LEDs. But quality and prices do range.

Edit: I've never done a dirted tank, but to my understand, you need to cap it to keep it from getting messy.

 

[KleinVis]

I am also starting an dirted tank. I've got an 75g. I used organic soil and put it in my tank. I also don't want to cap my dirt, because I like the dark colour. I have found this site where they tell you all about starting an dirted tank. They say that the dirt needs to go on an cycle of its own and needs to get water logged and that you should leave the dirt in your tank, barely covered with water, for at least a month for it to go through the cycle. The only thing is, they cap their dirt as well. So I thing I'm just going to leave my dirt with the little bit of water in there, for as long as possible and see what happens. Here is the site I was talking about:

Preparation and Maintenance of a Planted Aquarium

Hope someone who can give us a little bit more advise?
Thanks!

 

[Jkeating8]

If you're going to keep bee shrimp of any kind, I don't know that I would do a dirted tank.

 

[KleinVis]

What I also found, is that the dirt discolours the water. When I first put the soil in, with the little bit of water on top, I couldn't see where the dirt level started, but after about an week, I can see the dirt separated from the water, the water is just still very dark. Perhaps this will clear up over the next month? Maybe when I change the water, it won't turn dark again? And what do you guys think about cory's with dirt? I'm sorry Pezzep, I'm not trying to hog your thread, I am just to get an better understanding.

 

[Rivercats]

I have done dirted tanks for years with my largest dirted tank being a 220g right now. Dirt has to be capped in a small tank using a 1/2" to an inch of organic potting soil to an inch of cap works well. I cap using Eco complete as it has a high CEC, cation exchange capacity, meaning it can absorb nutrients from detris and the water and hold them for use by plants.

In regard to soil you don't have to mineralize it if you don't want. You can use the organic soil straight from the bag. When doing this you will have an excess of nutrients the first few weeks due to the initial breakdown of the organics in the soil.

It is not necessary to use clay under the dirt or in it. If you have it then by all means use it but if you don't have any don't sweat it.

In small tanks I prefer small leaved plants such as:

Rotala Mini Butterfly
Rotala Wallichii
Ludwigia Senegalensis
Ludwigia Magenta
Ludwigia Narrowleaf
Crypt Parva
Regular or Dwarf Baby tears
Ammania Bonsai
Anubia Nana Petite

 

[KleinVis]

Thanks Rivercats, so what do you suggest should be done? Leave the soil in the tank with a little bit of water for a few weeks? If the water is changed then, would the soil still discolour it?

 

[Pezzep]

What are the dimensions of the cube? Medium to high light is attainable from LEDs. But quality and prices do range.

Edit: I've never done a dirted tank, but to my understand, you need to cap it to keep it from getting messy.

Dimensions are 12"L x 12"W x 12.6"H 7.9g, I don't want to spend an absurd amount of money so if price is to high for LEDs I don't mind doing a different type of light to achieve high light. I'm just finding it difficult to find something that will fit my tank and I know next to nothing about lighting so it's hard to decide what to choose from random fixtures I have seen and for me to know if the LEDs in them will even grow plants.

 

[Pezzep]

I have done dirted tanks for years with my largest dirted tank being a 220g right now. Dirt has to be capped in a small tank using a 1/2" to an inch of organic potting soil to an inch of cap works well. I cap using Eco complete as it has a high CEC, cation exchange capacity, meaning it can absorb nutrients from detris and the water and hold them for use by plants.

In regard to soil you don't have to mineralize it if you don't want. You can use the organic soil straight from the bag. When doing this you will have an excess of nutrients the first few weeks due to the initial breakdown of the organics in the soil.

It is not necessary to use clay under the dirt or in it. If you have it then by all means use it but if you don't have any don't sweat it.

In small tanks I prefer small leaved plants such as:

Rotala Mini Butterfly
Rotala Wallichii
Ludwigia Senegalensis
Ludwigia Magenta
Ludwigia Narrowleaf
Crypt Parva
Regular or Dwarf Baby tears
Ammania Bonsai
Anubia Nana Petite

I tend to like to bank my substrate up I have about 3.5 -4 inches of dirt at the back of the tank and like 1-2 in the front, is this okay? My lfs don't sell ecocomplete and if I order online the shipping is crazy for 20lbs bags. I think I'm going to cap it with Geo system river rock gravel, it's very tiny gravel. A little concerned using it tho cause I heard their sand products lowered ph don't know if there gravel stuff does the same.

Thanks for the list of plants as well.

 

[Pezzep]

I am also starting an dirted tank. I've got an 75g. I used organic soil and put it in my tank. I also don't want to cap my dirt, because I like the dark colour. I have found this site where they tell you all about starting an dirted tank. They say that the dirt needs to go on an cycle of its own and needs to get water logged and that you should leave the dirt in your tank, barely covered with water, for at least a month for it to go through the cycle. The only thing is, they cap their dirt as well. So I thing I'm just going to leave my dirt with the little bit of water in there, for as long as possible and see what happens. Here is the site I was talking about:

Preparation and Maintenance of a Planted Aquarium

Hope someone who can give us a little bit more advise?
Thanks!

Thanks for the link, I'll give it a gander. And not a problem asking questions on this thread the more you, me or anyone asks the more everyone will learn from reading the responses.

 

[Pezzep]

I have the rotala mini butterfly in my other two tanks didn't know what it was called till now mine doesn't grow as red but it has a real nice pink colour to it in my other 8g it's more green in the 20g high. Was thinking of putting it in the back right of the tank with heavy trimming to get it nice and bushy.

 

[Rivercats]

Thanks Rivercats, so what do you suggest should be done? Leave the soil in the tank with a little bit of water for a few weeks? If the water is changed then, would the soil still discolour it?

In such a small tank you really don't have to do that. Even with my 220g tank that used a ton of dirt all I did was fill it up and empty it for 7 days, on day 8 I planted it. Any tiny bit of tannins left can be easily removed with carbon or purgen. I sure wouldn't wait weeks on end. Also if you use Miracle Grow Organic Potting Soil it doesn't leach out nearly what other soils leach out. I used Just Natural Organic Potting Soil which leached a ton. Tannins are not that big a deal. In fact many people who use MGOPS add it and the cap on day one and on day 2 give a good WC then plant.

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

Dimensions are 12"L x 12"W x 12.6"H 7.9g, I don't want to spend an absurd amount of money so if price is to high for LEDs I don't mind doing a different type of light to achieve high light. I'm just finding it difficult to find something that will fit my tank and I know next to nothing about lighting so it's hard to decide what to choose from random fixtures I have seen and for me to know if the LEDs in them will even grow plants.

Well 12" long is a common size luckily so you have options. But if you want high light with LEDs, I'd get the 12" BuildMyLED.com fixture. My preference would be either the Dutch or Iwagumi spectrum. You have a good amount of red plants on your list so those spectrums would be ideal. I'd also recommend the dimmer option too.

Here are the PAR charts.. PAR over 80 is considered high light.

http://www.buildmyled.com/freshwater/

 

[Pezzep]

Well 12" long is a common size luckily so you have options. But if you want high light with LEDs, I'd get the 12" BuildMyLED.com fixture. My preference would be either the Dutch or Iwagumi spectrum. You have a good amount of red plants on your list so those spectrums would be ideal. I'd also recommend the dimmer option too.

Here are the PAR charts.. PAR over 80 is considered high light.

Freshwater - Build My LED, LLC

Ordered one of them for my 46g bowfront about a week ago should be here this week sometime along with the dimmer, was thinking of getting this fixture for the 8g but they are quite expensive, though Christmas is just around the corner I might just have to add it to the list aha.

 

[Rivercats]

Just so you know a BML fixture is exceeding high light on a very small tank. I have one on a 12g and running the fixture on 50-75% for 6 hours is the max I can use. I mostly just use 50% daily tho. I have non-green plants in it that color up just fine at only 50%.

 

[Pezzep]

Just so you know a BML fixture is exceeding high light on a very small tank. I have one on a 12g and running the fixture on 50-75% for 6 hours is the max I can use. I mostly just use 50% daily tho. I have non-green plants in it that color up just fine at only 50%.

Do you have any experience with other fixtures or are you able to throw some brand names at me to have somewhere to start? Also the previous question I had, is there anything wrong with using say 4 inches of dirt cause I seen you said you only use like an inch? And I like to bank my substrate up high.

 

[Rivercats]

In small tanks like an 8 gallon I only use about an inch, 2 max. You can use 2 inches of dirt and 2 inches of cap to bank it up.

I only have a couple small tanks and use either the low light stock LED's on them or the BML fixtures. I'm not a big fan of small tanks. Brian_Nano12g is the small light go to guy.

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

I think you'd be fine with a 12" Finnex Fugeray Planted+ that comes out next month. It has a combination of white daylight and red LEDs (not to mention some blues for the moonlight). I think you'll hit medium light at the substrate. As your stems grow taller, it still get to high. The red diodes will make a difference and make your colors pop more rather than an all white light LED such as a Finnex Ray 2.

The pricing isn't released yet but it's expected to be priced less than a Ray2 and more than a regular Fugeray.

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

Here's more info on the planted+

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=338114

 

[Pezzep]

Here's more info on the planted+

ULTIMATE PLANT LED: Finnex FugeRAY Planted+ LED ...coming soon

The PAR ratings they show it says "Quick PAR reading below 24 inch fixture" so when it says 12 inches is that a 12 inch fixture? Or for a 12 inch high tank?

If it's a 12 inch high tank then I should have closer to 88 par since my substrate is 4 inches up at the highest point and 80+ PAR is considered high light correct? But my foreground will be more on the medium/close to high range.