Absolute Minimal Salt Water Aquarium

[thincat]

+1, great advise Kurt.
Please don't overfeed just to try and see if the clown eats. Mysis is a sure bet. I also use bloodworms, ocean nutrition Formula one sinking marine pellets, reef chile, Ultracolor sinking marine pellets and Spectrum marine formula, baby brine shrimp and tetraMarine saltwatr flakes. My shelf looks like a supermarket,,LOL

 

[mrg02d]

Hello,
I will try the mysis shrimp tomorrow. The clown no longer hides. he spends alot of time in the corner midway up the water column swimming vertically (Where the current is the strongest). Every now and then, he will swim to the other side of the tank, look around, then go back to the other side and keep swimming vertically. Is that normal? Also, I saw him go poo....How should it look? I know thats a funny Q. but I have read about stomach parasites and such. It was whitish with some green. I havent seen him eat the food (its no where to be seen). It was a short piece of poo and just popped out while he did his vertical swim.

I hope he doesnt miss his buddy! The crabs now keep their distance from him after the fight...

Matt

 

[thincat]

Clowns swim funny and I guess the other Q. is due to what he ate. Maybe not in your tank but at the LFS. When I buy a fish I always ask them to show me the food that they are being fed. It is better to at least feed the same food in the beginning. Whrn you do buy another clown you should buy either one that is much smaller then the one you have or much bigger. The big clown will be a female and if you went the other way the small one would end up the male. Females end up the boss.

 

[mrg02d]

Hello,
thanks for the replies!

I just noticed something strange in my tank! Its on the glass (well, acrylic). It looks like an Anemonae! Its TINY and transparent. About 1/8" in diameter with tenticles 1/8" long as well. It just appeared today. It doesnt look like any of the Aiptasia pictures at all. Could it be a baby Aiptasia? Should I nail it with the algae scraper?

Its bascially a disk with 5 tenticles or so attached...And now that I go back to look at it again, its GONE!

I dont know how on earth it got in there. I did put some old snail shells from the beach in there last night, but boiled them first for a few minutes. They were about a year old sitting in a glass vase.

I cant believe its gone. It must have known I was on to it. I hope that wasnt some baby aiptasia!
EDIT: I saw another similar one, but smaller. When I broguht the algae scraper near, he took off! Swam like a jelly fish straight to the sand bed. Looked like a cross between a jelly and a anemonae. DANG! How could this happen? How did they get in here? I also see "fleas" on the glass and swimming somewhat where the flow is low. I guess these are copepods or something? Weird! I didnt put any of this stuff in on purpose!

Ive also now noticed a small colony of what looks like a cross between a fan worm and an anemonae growing on live rock where the water flow is minimal. They are TINY (.5cm) and have fuzzy tenticle like structures at the top of a tube like structure. I ran a wooden stick through them and they just stayed there, attached to the rock. (Unlike the transparent creature that took off).

I dont understand this sudden outbreak of life. Maybe I just never noticed it. (The copepod flea things are new.)
Matt

 

[thincat]

Those first ones are aiptasia and all more then likely came in with your lr. here is a link that might help: Xtalreef
This is a very exciting part of reefkeeping....
here is another link: http://www.chucksaddiction.com/hitchhikers.html

 

[mrg02d]

Hello,
After looking around the google images, it seems this first observation is the hydromedusae. The pictures of hydromedusae on aquarum glass look nearly identical to what I saw. The described behavior also matches. (swimming like a jellyfish).

Could these be bad? They hang around the copepods hangout. (Im guessing they eat copepods)

I am still trying to ID the other strange white things. (The worm/anemonae things). They dont run off or retract when touched.

Thanks for the links!
Matt

 

[mrg02d]

Hello,
Here is an update on the state of things in my tank...
1-Hermit crabs poop everywhere! I dont see how they can do this, but its all over the places they hang out. I dont have any snails yet, will they eat this?

2-The clown fish no longer hides, but still hasnt eaten anything. Still has strange poo. Lets assume its intestinal parasites. Will the meds for this kill the invertabrates? Is it safe to treat the clown in the DT for intestinal parasites?

Also, is it possible for a clown to have OCD? Once the lights come on, he comes out of his cave (Its been a different place each night) and goes to the same spot to swim vertically against the current. I turned off the power head and he kinda swam around the area looking upset. He dosnt even notice food. I even put in a small piece of garlic. He doesnt seem to give two craps about it. I even tried mysis shrimp. (It floated right past him)

I dont see how, but he is pooping a few times a day. I dont see him eat anything. He seems to obsessed to even think about looking. I get close to the glass, and he backs off a bit, but not by much. Doesnt seem to care that I am there. I shoed him away from his spot with a wooden spoon and he left for a few seconds. When I left, he went right back to what he was doing!

3-I cant figure out what this thing is in the water. It looks like an anemona, but really doesnt look like the aiptasia ones. Its in a white tube with brown spots and it has transparent tenticles. Above it (further up the LR) are these tiny little things with white stalks and bushy tops.


Ammonia: 0
Nitrite:0
Nitrate: Closer to 10ppm now.
pH:8.2
SG: 1.025
Temp: 77F

Matt

 

[thincat]

First off, those tiny things sound like mini featherdusters. The other one sounds like peanut worms. Both are not a problem and more then likely came in with your lr. Your fish won't eat a chunk of garlic. Just squeeze some of the garlic juice on his food if you want to use garlic.
OCD- You will have to have someone else answer this/
The crabs are eating detritus and in turn breaking this down to another step in the nitrogen cycle. Some snails will eat this, it depends on the snail. Some only eat vegatable matter.

 

[mrg02d]

Hello,
thanks for the reply!
Mini feather dusters, eh? Thats good! I wonder where all the copepods came from? As well as the "jelly fish"? Maybe this stuff was in the sand? (The seller claims the sand was full of life.

Yea, I know the fish wont eat the piece of garlic, I just wanted to see if it got his attention. He acts blind. Im willing to bet he will die, just as the other one did. I will NOT be back to that fish store! I think I will call the supplier (they are in my town) and ask to buy directly from them. (They raise them here).

Seems one dying the very next day and the other acting like an idiot that poos weird isnt a fair deal for $18 a pop! Maybe if my parameters were bad. The fish store thinks they are hurting because my cycle was short. They said that no cycle can happen over 2 weeks time. Sigh...

I kinda wish my parameters were off, so Id have some closure. Maybe there was some nasties on the live rock, or the live sand? Parasites or bacteria or who knows?

I will continue to try to feed the clown each day now. (Little bits) But I will write him off as soon to be dead. I havent read one hopeful thing about a clown that doesnt eat and has strange poo. His food goes RIGHT by him! Not even a glace at it. Even when I turn off the power head, and his source of obession is gone! At least the crabs love the food landing near them!

I wonder if he eats the copepods (when im not looking) that are all around him now?

Thanks guys!
Matt

 

[thincat]

Sorry to here that. You might try some live food. Does the LFS or the supplier have any? Or try a fresh piece of shrimp...very small piece. Most fish love shrimp.

 

[mrg02d]

Hello,
The problem is, is that the clown just doesnt pay any attention at all to his food. He doesnt go inspect it or anything. So its not that he doesnt like it, he just doesnt even seem to think about eating. He is like a broken toy, totally unresponsive. I fear he will slowly waste away...I just tried again, and he let both mysis and flake food float right past his head. Im guessing he is going to die. Maybe he has brain worms or something? Hes plenty active and poops...Strange.

I guess I will keep trying until he either eats, or dies. :-( Next time, I buy from ebay as sellers have something to lose as well as have Paypal to make **** sure I get what I paid for. Id feel better if it were Ich or parasites or something explanable. The clown feels well enough to explore the tank, but not to eat. Seems the LFS ought to be REQUIRED to QT their stock, especially since I had to pay $18.00 EACH. A seller in my state on ebay charges $12.59 and $15.00 for overnight shipping. I can order all I want for the same shipping charge. I could pick up some snails and maybe some coral along with new clown fish if this one dies too.

Does intestinal worm treatment hurt live rock bacteria or other invertabrates? Maybe I ought to attempt to medicate him in a bucket for worms? I just dont see his strange pooping habits be purely stress related...

BTW-System still working well! All this wasted food still hasnt spiked anything. Nitrates moved a little, but nothing crazy. Also, a closer look at these anemona things: They look alot like a tube, with little stringy tenticles. Looks alot more like an anemona thats living in a worm tube. (A cross between them).
Matt

 

[thincat]

Next time you buy local ask to them to feed the fish and see if the fish eats.No fee...No buy..., No eat.....No buy!!!

 

[mrg02d]

Hello,
Rookie mistake? I should have asked for them to be fed! They were so lively in their tiny holding tank. (Just three of them kept together) They were all swimming like they thought we were going to be feeding them, so I figured they were good to go. I asked if they were tank raised, and the dealer assured they were and much better than wild caught. Im really not sure what I make of all this. Maybe I could have done a better acclimation. Maybe they were diseased. Maybe they were truly wild caught? I dont think I had any disease in my tank as I have nothing but crabs and live rock/sand.

Maybe I dont have good oxygenation? I have a Koralia 1 power head pointed to the surface of the tank and it creates a constant flow through the tank. The surface is quite turbulent too with water splashing about.

All water parameters are great...

The guy at the store was hesitant to sell me the fish as he thought I didnt know what I was doing with my water measurements and thought that I had THOUGHT I had ammonia spikes and nitrite spikes...I assured him that while it was hurried and short, it was a cycle by deffinition. He said these are VERY hardy fish and then relented. (Or maybe all that was reverse psychology? )

From now on, its tank bred or nothing. If from a pet store, no eat no buy! If from ebay, I can check their feedback and whatnot.

Thanks guys! Any more ideas for this poor soul would be greatly appreciated!
Matt

 

[thincat]

Let things be for awhile and maybe look for another fish from a different source after another good PWC.

 

[gzeiger]

I think you guys are being way too hard on this poor fish store. One fish dying shortly after being moved is well within the realm of bad luck. It's rare to see a store that will explain to you about cycling and try to make you do it before you buy fish, and for that alone it sounds to me like this is a good establishment that probably knows what they're doing and deserves repeat business.

As far as not eating, I think the obvious explanation is probably the right one. I don't keep clown fish myself, so there may be species differences, but every fish I've ever kept has preferred amphipods to pretty much any other kind of food I can offer, including bloodworms and mysis. If your tank is full of free-swimming crustaceans and there's only one fish, he's probably just feeding off the existing ecosystem when you're not watching. It isn't really possible for an organism to continue producing solid waste as you describe for very many days after it stops eating, so I don't think it actually has stopped eating.

 

[mrg02d]

Good point on bad luck, but if this were a common thing, then the store ought to give refunds. $18.00 is alot of money for a fish that dies the next day when everything is done right. Especially after being sold on the hardiness of the fish. They let you know there are no guarantees of any kind on their fish.

Its nothing personal with them, just business. Seems to be a bad idea to buy again there as they have little to lose. I am a seller on ebay and I know what happens when you begin to get negatives. People just stop buying from you, especially if there is good competition around. This seller on ebay guarantees non DOA, and if I got a fish from him that died the next day, you can bet id start a paypal claim and leave a negative. (If he refused to send another or a refund). Hes got great feedback, most negatives come from one buyer that sounds pretty unreasonable.

Good point on the copepods. There are a good bit in there now.

Matt

 

[mrg02d]

Hello,
I had a quick question: I have ALOT of nasty sediment stuff in the water. it stays on the bottom, but looks filthy. If it gets stirred up, it looks terrible. Looks like alot of organic matter and decay from the "bio gel" that came with the live sand that I left in. I decided to get an HOB filter to try to clear it up. I found the AquaClear 50 at the pet store, and went with it. Its for 20-50gallon and is rated for up to 200 gph. It has a foam filter, carbon filter, and ceramic filter ( I assume for good bacteria to build on). I figure this ought to suck out this junk from the water. My question is, should I leave the carbon filter stage and ceramic filter stage in? Or, should I just run the foam stage since I just want to remove junk from the water?

BTW-Clown is still alive and is much more lively. He still poops funny, but its not stringy. It just hangs there for 30mins or so. If he IS eating the pods, this would explain the color. I dont see him eating them, but do see him swimming around them acting like he MAY be sucking them in. He STILL AVOIDS my food offerings. He swims right past the flakes and the mysis shrimp?? I watched him move out of the food's path! Im wondering if I will need to now just let him eat pods? I will likely need to get more and somehow culture them, right?

Another question: If I am going to leave this new filter running now, should I point the power head somewhere else in the tank now? (Right now its pointing at the surface creating turbulence.) Maybe point it right at the LR?

Water parameters for today:
Ammonia:0
Nitrite:0
Nitrate: 10ppm (Water change will be coming in a few days).
pH:8.2
Water temp: 77F
SG: 1.024 ish
Thanks guys! It seems to be coming along nicely, no?
Matt

Thanks!
Matt

 

[thincat]

I would leave the filter as is for now. Point the power head at the junk on the surface of the sand, you need to keep the detris moving in the water colume so that the filter will filter it out. Your clown is getting food from somewhere. I would call and ask the LFS what he feeds them. It seems funny to me that a tank raise fish would be so hard to get to eat.
Lastly.....yes you are coming along nicely...Keep up the good work!

 

[thincat]

Be sure to clean that filter often so that it's most effective at removing what you want it to.

 

[mrg02d]

Hello,
Thanks for the reply!
Now I have a new problem. My clown fish has lumps on his head!
They are orange where the skin color is orange and white where his skin is white. Some look like small pimples, and others just irregular (wart-like). None look like white specs. (Ich)

Any ideas? They just appeared the morning. I looked over the Ich pictures and it just doesnt look like that. Could this be some kind of fungus? Maybe stirring up all the junk from the sand caused some kind of infection?

As far as treatments go, are the only dangerous meds that require a QT those with copper or other metals? Are there meds that are safe for invertibrates?

The clown seems alright I guess. A little less active. Acts curious when I get close to the glass with my magnifying glass.

I was going to order another fish and some snails...Not anymore...Are all clowns this problematic?

Matt