Acclimating fish in larger volumes of water than bags

[Corey]

I am recently planning on moving my fish to their new tank in a cooler w/an airstone. While transferring their old gravel/decorations/filter media into the new tank, I was planning on acclimating them to the new tank while they're in the cooler, because the new tank is much larger and ~ an hour away from the old tank, so the water parameters will be different.
I know how to acclimate fish that you bring home in a bag from the LFS (I use an acclimation hose), but obviously 4-8 drips per second wouldn't work in a large volume of water like a cooler, haha.
Is there any general rule I can use? Say, introduce 1/4 of the amount of the water they're in with new water every 15min (or something like that)?

And also, I placed new filter media into the filter running on my current, established tank to seed it for another tank. How long can I expect bacteria to take to cultivate in the media?

Any input is appreciated,
Thanks!

 

[BrianNY]

Good questions Corey. The answer in acclimation time lies in how different the pH is. I would test the transport water vs the new tap water. Of course you want to keep the temps approximately the same as well. If the pH is similar you can proceed quickly. If not, take your time.

It usually takes a week to 10 days to get a new filter seeded.

 

[Corey]

Good questions Corey. The answer in acclimation time lies in how different the pH is. I would test the transport water vs the new tap water. Of course you want to keep the temps approximately the same as well. If the pH is similar you can proceed quickly. If not, take your time.

It usually takes a week to 10 days to get a new filter seeded.

Thanks Brian.
Is there a general goal you shoot for when acclimating, ie. should you try to end up with half new water, half old, etc.?
Thanks!

 

[BrianNY]

50% is a good rule of thumb on the initial switch Corey. Then to be safe do a third the following day. After that you can get back to weekly pwcs.

 

[Corey]

50% is a good rule of thumb on the initial switch Corey. Then to be safe do a third the following day. After that you can get back to weekly pwcs.

Hmm, not sure I'm following you here.
I was wondering, during initial acclimation in the cooler, should I try to end up with them having 50% from the water of the tank they're about to go into, and 50% of the water they were transported in? Ie., if I bring them home in 5 gallons of established water, should I slowly add 5 gallons of the new unestablished water to acclimate them (10g total), or something like that? Then I can plop them into the new tank's unestablished water that they were previously only swimming in 50% of? Or are my amounts off?
I will probably add as much of their current water to the new tank as I can, but because the new tank is so much bigger than the old (20g compared to 45) I'm not sure if it would make that much of a difference anyway. I'm thinking I'll probably be able to put 15g or so of old water into the new 45g. That's why I feel the need to acclimate them.
Make sense?

 

[CompMage]

Pending how much access to the new water you have and time you could leave them in the current tank for a little longer, and start doing small PWC using the new water into the old tank. You could do this and slowly move everything to the new tank. Since you'll need a larger filter for the 45 compaired to the 20, put the 20's filter on the 45 and let it do it's think, with no fish that's all you need. And put the 45 filter on the 20. Great way to seed the filter and get the fish ready to move.

Then like Brian said, at 50% to 70% new water you could just use water from the current 20G and move them from the new home. You can do the acclamation to the new tank over the time it take to seed the filter.

I hope I was clear enough on that. It's anther way to do it.

 

[Corey]

Pending how much access to the new water you have and time you could leave them in the current tank for a little longer, and start doing small PWC using the new water into the old tank. You could do this and slowly move everything to the new tank. Since you'll need a larger filter for the 45 compaired to the 20, put the 20's filter on the 45 and let it do it's think, with no fish that's all you need. And put the 45 filter on the 20. Great way to seed the filter and get the fish ready to move.

Then like Brian said, at 50% to 70% new water you could just use water from the current 20G and move them from the new home. You can do the acclamation to the new tank over the time it take to seed the filter.

I hope I was clear enough on that. It's anther way to do it.

Hmm. Let me see if I am getting this (sorry, I'm a little slow today LOL) -

I will be moving them from school, where they live in their 20g, to a little over an hour home for summer, where a new 45g is already up and running, but is not cycled. So I am bringing them home in the cooler with 20g tank water, and need to acclimate them to the 45g tank.
I have no access to the new tank/new water until I have the fish home with me. I'm assuming they'll be quite stressed at this point, so I don't want to waste much time.

Are you suggesting I set up the 20g again when I get home, using all the old water I can, and put them in that? And then do PWC's with new water until the 20g is ~70% new water, then just switch them over to the 45g? While in the meantime, the filter swap would prepare the new tank/filter with bacteria?

This makes sense to me, but how long are we talking about doing PWC's on the 20g? Hours? Days? Weeks?
And about the filters - wouldn't running the 20g filter on the 45g tank be a waste, because the bacteria would die in the 45 with no ammonia/nitrite to feed on? I suppose this depends on how long it would be until you got fish in the tank.
I'm also pretty sure the 45g's filter will not fit on the 20g with the lid, because it's too wide.
How long does it take for a filter to seed? Couldn't I just use filter media from my current filter?

Sorry this is so long.
Thanks SO much for the resonses, I really appreciate it.
I'm not sure who's going to be more stressed during this move, me, or the fish! Heh.

 

[CompMage]

Let me try and answer this in order.

1, Yes if you can save as much of the older water as you can do it. I might also suggest grabbing a few gallon of it in water jugs to help keep the 20G where it is.

2, Yes the filter swap is one of the best ways to seed a tank. If the new 45G filter will take the media from the 20G use it in the 45G and leave it in the larger tank since you can't run the larger filter in the smaller tank.

3. Seeding a tank can take a week to a month. When doing this I would suggest reading up on using a "fishless cycle" for priming your new 45G tank. That method takes about a week to two weeks pending your NH4 source. (urine is not a valid source, rotting shrimp is).
Fishless Cycle Info <--- Follow that link for more info on fishless Cycle.

As for stress. If you do it right. MUCH MORE STRESSFUL TO YOU!!!!

Now here is the thing. TEST BOTH WATERS. If the PH is within .2 - .3 of each other, you need only wait long enough to get the second tank cycled. Your fish won't be bugged to much by the new water. In the wild water PH can very that much. Problem is your fish would go crazy if they did not get their 5pm feeding every day of flakes and freeze dried worms.

4. How long....well that's a tricky question. Personally I would say 20 hours at 1 gallon an hour. BUT since you're going to have to take longer then this. 10% water changes with the new water for the time to cycle the new tank or / and your 20G is at lest 50% - 70% new water.

If your new 45G is going to be planted and you're putting established plants in it. You can skip the fishless cycle and just let the tank run for a week or how long it takes to get the fish acclimated to the new water. But this is only if the new tank is going to be at lest MODERETLY planted. Not just well I put a sword in there.

Keep us posted and good luck.

 

[Corey]

Okay, I get what you're saying. Thanks for clarifying.

Everything sounds good, except I'm not sure I understand why I'd need to go through another cycle at all. In theory, shouldn't I have enough bacteria in the 20g for an instant cycle in the 45g, providing I keep the same bioload?
If the bacteria were all kept alive during the move, couldn't I transfer my gravel, decorations, filter media, powerhead etc., anything that contains the bacteria, to the 45 and be cycled?
This is what I've gathered from reading several threads on this topic.
What about, over the course of a day or two, do PWC to the 20g to acclimate them, and then all at once transfer everything from their tank over to the 45?

Thanks.

 

[rich311k]

As long as you keep the gravel and filter media wet that should work just fine. Keep an extra careful eye on your parameters though just in case. You are correct same fish is same bioload no mattter what the size of the tank is.

 

[Corey]

As long as you keep the gravel and filter media wet that should work just fine. Keep an extra careful eye on your parameters though just in case. You are correct same fish is same bioload no mattter what the size of the tank is.

Thanks rich. That's what I've thought - makes sense to me.

In that case, in your - or anyone's - opinion, would it be better to

a) acclimate and put the fish into a new tank directly after an ~ hour move, or

b) place the fish back into their original tank after the move, and move them to the new tank the following day after acclimating them slowly?

I'm just trying to figure out what's best for the fish. I have a few delicate ones that I'm attached to.
Any input is appreciated!