Adding BioSpira to Existing Tank

[Kilgore]

Hi,

I have a 10-gallon tank that is about a month old and was cycled in just under one week using BioSpira and four guppies. We later added two more guppies and saw no difference in readings - ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrates 15 ppm. Unfortunately, I had to treat a case of finrot on one of my males (he got nipped, seems the new male didn't get along with him). I didn't have a hospital tank at the time and Maracyn claimed to be safe so....

Readings on ammonia were fine for the 5 days of treatment, but on the 5th day, a bunch of fry were born. We decided to move all the adults to a new 20 gallon. The fry stayed in the 10 that was fully cycled.

We moved it to a new spot, but the filter was only off for about one hour while we caught fish and rearranged. Two days later I started getting ammonia readings of 0.25 - 0.50 ppm. Whoa, what happened!? I suspect it was the Maracyn, but like I said, it didn't happen until after we moved the tank. Would the filter being off for one hour kill the bacteria? It was only without water for about 5 minutes while we moved the tank. Third possibility is that we have been overfeeding the babies (make that a fact), but I have cut way back and I don't see how overfeeding for three days could cause such a big jump in ammonia. Not like we were dumping egg yolk or anything in there - just live baby brine and some Hikari First Bites.

Finally, what can we do about it? I want to add BioSpira to help the tank re-cycle, but it's expensive and I've heard ammonia can kill it before it gets a foothold. The problem is, I have been doing two 50% water changes daily since we discovered the ammonia spike, and yet it seems to make no difference in detectable ammonia levels according to our Aquariu Pharm kit, even five minutes later. So what should I do to save my little babies? Good news is they seem ok in spite of ammonia - no losses, eating readily, and swimming normally.

 

[Devilishturtles]

I've never used Bio-Spira, but imagine that it isn't needed. I'm guessing the ammonia is coming from overfeeding the fry, which is easy to do. How old is your test kit?

When you changed the water the past two times, did you vaccum the gravel? I'd keep doing 30-40% changes daily until it goes away, not touching your gravel. Just water.

HTH.

 

[Guest]

I think bio-spira is a wonderful product and that adding it will help repopulate the bacteria. I think your bacteria was killed by the maracyn.

 

[Kilgore]

My ammonia test kit is the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals one, only one month old. It is very accurate from what I can tell. It can be a little difficult to determine the exact shade I am looking at though in the lower ends of the ammonia levels (the test goes up to 6.0!). Difficult as in, "Would you say that's more yellow-green or light green-green?.

I just find it odd that immediately after a major water change - and yes I am doing a major gravel vac (getting less and less gunk each time, which is good) - the ammonia level does not change appreciably.

I have cut WAY back on the feeding and hope I am not starving my fry. Once a day until ammonia clears up, I guess, or maybe twice a day if they start to look thin.

I would like to add the BioSpira to get the bacteria replenished, because if it was overfeeding, twice daily gravel vacs for two days and 50% water changes should have taken care of that, one would think. In combination with reduced feeding, of course.

Unfortunately, if I can't get my ammonia down through water changes then how can I add the BioSpira - or is 0.5 ppm ammonia not high enough to kill it? I will be waiting anxiously for your knowledgeable answers, as always. In the meantime I am adding some Aquel+.

 

[Devilishturtles]

Hmm. Doesn't yellow mean 0 ppm ammonia on the AP kit? Is there a chance you are just looking at the color in the wrong light or anything like that?

I don't know enough about Bio-Spira to say if you should add it to your tank or not. I know how expensive it is though, so I can't see buying it and then barely using it. Or, do you already have some and just want to add it in?

I'm sure someone with more Bio-Spira knowledge will come along.

 

[Kilgore]

Hmm. Doesn't yellow mean 0 ppm ammonia on the AP kit? Is there a chance you are just looking at the color in the wrong light or anything like that?

You are right, yellow does mean 0, but yellow-green indicates a 0.25 reading and a brighter green indicates 0.5 ppm ammonia. It goes up from there, of course. What I meant is that when it is yellowish-green, it can be hard to tell if it is closer to 0 or closer to 0.25, or getting gloser to green-green. I try to look at it in bright light, but my lights are flourescent. I can definitely tell when it is not 0 though because I compare the vial to the color of that from an existing tank, which I know has cycled and has no ammonia.

I decided to go ahead and add some BioSpira - $12 here, which is expensive IMHO, but I needed most of it for a new 20 gallon anyway; since that package treats 30 gallons, I used 1/3 for the 10 with the fry and the remaining 2/3 in my new 20 gallon.

I performed a 40% water change to try and minimize any ammonia before adding the BioSpira. I will update everyone later to see how it pans out. Previous uses of BioSpira have cycled my tanks in 4-6 days, so I should know fairly soon. If it doesnt work, I guess I'll just have to wait for it to finish cycling the natural way.

 

[Kilgore]

Good news! Four days after adding the BioSpira ammonia was 0, no nitrites yet but maybe I missed the spike. Nitrates were already present before the bio crash. So it appears to have worked. I am glad because I felt very sorry for my newborn fry having their gills burned by ammonia shortly after birth. Amazingly they are all still accounted for.

Note to self and others: While I can't prove it conclusively, it appears that Maracyn does indeed affect the biological filter. Perhaps Mardel will offer a refund (yeah right, lol).

 

[Lonewolfblue]

I've used Maracyn Two to treat popeye, and had no effect on the biological filter. Never had a ammonia or nitrite spike. And the treatment lasted 2 weeks or so, dropping tablets in as per the instructions in the box.

 

[Kilgore]

You make an excellent point - the difference between Maracyn and Maracyn 2 is significant. Maracyn treats gram-positive bacteria, the same type as the filter bacteria, while Maracyn 2 treats gram-negative bacteria. So it would make sense that only Maracyn would affect the filter negatively. However, I was hoping I could trust in Mardel's claims.

Unfortunately, one can't really tell which type of bacteria are affecting one's fish, so sometimes you have to try both. From now on I will go with Maracyn 2 and only use Maracyn as a last resort or in a hospital tank.

 

[Devilishturtles]

Glad to hear it all worked out for ya.

 

[jtmoderate876]

Dosing tank with Maracyn for 4 days - now Ammonia!

I have been correctly dosing a tank with Maracyn for 4 days - and now I have Ammonia!

I have never have ammonia readings since the first time I cycled my first tank a long time ago.

The literature indicates "Mardel products have been tested with known strains of these [Nitrobacter and Nitrosomonas] bacteria with no adverse effects noted. When used as directed, they do not interfere with bilogical filter."

This is not comprehensive and I can't prove it wasn't something else but I'm pretty convinced my Ammonia spike is related to the Maracyn (this was Maracyn, not Maracyn 2).