Advice !

[Zagz]

It sounds to me like the tank is suffering from an ammonia or nitrite spike, causing the fish's gills to suffer damage and hence the need for oxygen. I must agree that the test kit is a necessity. Without knowing your water parameters it will be next to impossible to figure out the cause, as the likelihood the cause is the water parameters.

I recently changed the substrate in my established for 6 months 15 gal tank and suffered a mini cycle as a result. Fortunately I was testing the water and no fish died. Had I not tested my water my fish most certainly would have died from ammonia and nitrite increases. With no water test kit I would recommend if you are planning on adding more fish to do water changes every day until you get a test kit. I also agree with jrp that the chemical to remove the cloudiness may have affected your water parameters. I have goldies and they are messy and if I don't do water changes every few days the water gets cloudy fast. I use active carbon in their filter as it helps some.

 

[Roxanne]

Action this morning !

Dear all forummers,

Thank you for your many advice yesterday and today.

I have taken the following actions this morning :-

1) I observed the remora very closely, and saw that it was sitting on top
of a leaf at the water surface of the aquarium. I presumed that it is
'breathing'. With this, I truly concluded that there is a lack of oxgyen
in the water. I would also like to say that aeration is being undertaken
and the water is bubbling at the surface. The pump is working normally
at the higher speed.

2) I have decided to reverse my actions which I have undertaken
yesterday, with the following actions :-

a) Prepared a bucket of distilled water, added a small amount of
dechloro. Left it there for 0.5 hr.

b) Poured away the water from the aquarium, ie doing a 100% water
change. This removed the cloudiness remover, uneaten worms and
the slightly higher concentration of dechloro that I applied yesterday.

Then washed everything thoroughly (aquarium, water plant, stones and filter (which also acted as the bubble source)) thoroughly with normal tap water.

In the meantime, I put the remora in the prepared bucket of water. Then put the water plant into the bucket. No stress seen coming from the remora.

c) Re-filled the aquarium with the prepared water, put in the water plant,
No More Adding of cloudiness remover or frozen worms. Re-installed
the filter / bubble source, and switched the pump back on to high
speed. I am confident aeration is taking place. After all, it's such a
small aquarium and it should not be too difficult to saturate it with
oxygen. Am I right in saying this please ?

Again, I observed the remora closely. No signs of stress. 'Bumped' to the surface once or twice for oxygen, but stayed very comfortably in the tank at the bottom or midway down among the leaves.

There should be oxygen being produced by the leaves now, right ? Photosynthesis should be taking place now, right ? The remora could be enjoying the oxygen being given out by the water plant now, hence it's move to among the leaves.

The Most Important Point here would be : it has not sat itself on a leaf at the surface for oxygen.

But still quite early to tell, 'cos I'd just changed the water.

The water was also observed closely. It's clear now. But I can see there are residues starting to 'run-around' in the water-flow, and I wouldn't be surprised that the water will get cloudy soon.

Dropped 4 pcs of goldfish pellets into the tank to help kickstart the 'cycle' process, and perhaps to provide some food for the remora.

Discarded the 2 goldies that died yesterday, hence the tank now contains the following :-

a) a remora
2) a water plant
c) a filter / bubble source
d) many small stones

Sorry : Still has no Water Quality Kit. But trying out anyway, with the remora to act as my 'indicator' against water quality for the time being.

My reasoning : if the remora does not 'suffocate', then the 'cycle' process
would be proceeding quite nicely, with no build-up of
toxins. Oxygen should be in abundance in the water.

Appreciated your comments, my friends,.......

 

[Lonewolfblue]

http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Remora_remora.html

 

[Zagz]

Good luck with your tank, I hope the remora stays healthy. If you do want your water tested, your local lfs would probably test it for you.

 

[DepotFish]

IMO, don't use dechlor with goldfish. I don't know what breeds you had, but I've had bad luck with several brands of dechlor. I have a two four year old goldies (one at my mom's) that I've tried dechlor with. They are completely healthy but within an hour of adding dechlor they both were gasping at the surface. I changed their water and now won't use dechlor again. I know many people use it with goldies, but not me. The same bottles are what I use with my bettas, and they work fine.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Re: Action this morning !

Dear all forummers,

Thank you for your many advice yesterday and today.

I have taken the following actions this morning :-

1) I observed the remora very closely, and saw that it was sitting on top
of a leaf at the water surface of the aquarium. I presumed that it is
'breathing'. With this, I truly concluded that there is a lack of oxgyen
in the water. I would also like to say that aeration is being undertaken
and the water is bubbling at the surface. The pump is working normally
at the higher speed.

2) I have decided to reverse my actions which I have undertaken
yesterday, with the following actions :-

a) Prepared a bucket of distilled water, added a small amount of
dechloro. Left it there for 0.5 hr.

b) Poured away the water from the aquarium, ie doing a 100% water
change. This removed the cloudiness remover, uneaten worms and
the slightly higher concentration of dechloro that I applied yesterday.

Then washed everything thoroughly (aquarium, water plant, stones and filter (which also acted as the bubble source)) thoroughly with normal tap water.

In the meantime, I put the remora in the prepared bucket of water. Then put the water plant into the bucket. No stress seen coming from the remora.

c) Re-filled the aquarium with the prepared water, put in the water plant,
No More Adding of cloudiness remover or frozen worms. Re-installed
the filter / bubble source, and switched the pump back on to high
speed. I am confident aeration is taking place. After all, it's such a
small aquarium and it should not be too difficult to saturate it with
oxygen. Am I right in saying this please ?

Again, I observed the remora closely. No signs of stress. 'Bumped' to the surface once or twice for oxygen, but stayed very comfortably in the tank at the bottom or midway down among the leaves.

There should be oxygen being produced by the leaves now, right ? Photosynthesis should be taking place now, right ? The remora could be enjoying the oxygen being given out by the water plant now, hence it's move to among the leaves.

The Most Important Point here would be : it has not sat itself on a leaf at the surface for oxygen.

But still quite early to tell, 'cos I'd just changed the water.

The water was also observed closely. It's clear now. But I can see there are residues starting to 'run-around' in the water-flow, and I wouldn't be surprised that the water will get cloudy soon.

Dropped 4 pcs of goldfish pellets into the tank to help kickstart the 'cycle' process, and perhaps to provide some food for the remora.

Discarded the 2 goldies that died yesterday, hence the tank now contains the following :-

a) a remora
2) a water plant
c) a filter / bubble source
d) many small stones

Sorry : Still has no Water Quality Kit. But trying out anyway, with the remora to act as my 'indicator' against water quality for the time being.

My reasoning : if the remora does not 'suffocate', then the 'cycle' process
would be proceeding quite nicely, with no build-up of
toxins. Oxygen should be in abundance in the water.

Appreciated your comments, my friends,.......

1. If you are cycling with a fish, then you should do a 50% PWC daily or every other day. Don't wait til you see the ramora being affected.

2. Don't use straight distilled water. Use just your regular tap water with a little dechlor. Don't need to wait a half hour either, the dechlor works instantly, spreads throught the tank within a few seconds and removes chlorine on contact.

3. Plants do give off oxygen, but not in sufficient amounts to saturate the water with O2, just having 1 plant. The aeration is done in the filter and a bubbler if you have one.

4. The fish probably isn't getting oxygen by sitting on the plant. He's probably just sitting on the plant because he enjoys it, or likes the feel. He's getting plenty of oxygen from the water, as the filter is aerating the water.

5. If he's looking sick, or trying to get oxygen from the surface, it's probably not a lack of O2, it's the ammonia and nitrite being way too high. That's the reason for the PWC's daily or every other day, til you are cycled. Then 20% weekly after that.

6. You need a test kit ASAP. Ammonia and nitrite levels must not go above 1ppm, preferably .5ppm or less. And there's no way to tell without the kit. Use a liquid test kit, don't rely on test strips, as many I've seen and used were not very accurate.

 

[jrp1588]

Depotfish, Doesn't the chlorine and chloramie eventually build up to toxic levels though?

 

[Lonewolfblue]

IMO, don't use dechlor with goldfish. I don't know what breeds you had, but I've had bad luck with several brands of dechlor. I have a two four year old goldies (one at my mom's) that I've tried dechlor with. They are completely healthy but within an hour of adding dechlor they both were gasping at the surface. I changed their water and now won't use dechlor again. I know many people use it with goldies, but not me. The same bottles are what I use with my bettas, and they work fine.

I've never seen problems with dechlor and goldies. I know many people who use Prime when they do their PWC, and the goldies just love the new fresh water. But distilled water like they said they used, is a no-no, IMO. Distilled water should only be added to tap water if the water has too much minerals, etc, to soften the water. Other than that, not straight distilled.

 

[StngStr]

Re: Action this morning !

Sorry : Still has no Water Quality Kit. But trying out anyway, with the remora to act as my 'indicator' against water quality for the time being.

My reasoning : if the remora does not 'suffocate', then the 'cycle' process
would be proceeding quite nicely, with no build-up of
toxins. Oxygen should be in abundance in the water.

Appreciated your comments, my friends,.......

That's not going to work. By the time the pleco's (it's not a remora) actions would indicate something is wrong, it will probably be too late. Go to the fish store, spend a couple bucks and at least get a basic water test kit. If you're not willing to do that, you should pick a different hobby.

 

[Roxanne]

Just a question, perhaps not logical !

Dear forummers,

Most of us have studied Biology, or the Natural Sciences. We all know there are sometimes unique situations in living organisms.

I have a question here : Could the water plant that I added-in caused a deterioration of the oxygen content in the tank, ie during the day, oxygen is being consumed by the plant, and photosynthesis is NOT taking place ?

The tank is located at a place where there is light sunlight coming in, but of course, it is Not put in direct sunlight (which should not be the case anyway).

Could this plant be behaving abnormally, due to whatever reasons ? Or this plant may be 'unique' ?

Just a hunch - I wouldn't want my fishes to be competing with the water plant for oxygen. The role, at least during the day, should be oxygen -
complementary, and not 'competitive'.

At night, the pump should be playing its role, ie performing the purposeful aeration for both the fishes and the plant in my small tank.

Would appreciate advice on this too. TIA........

 

[TCTFish]

The fish alone will produce ammonia to kick start the nitrogen cycle. Adding more food than what the fish needs will only jet the ammonia up too fast and may kill the fish. You really do not have a proper set up for the fish you want. We cannot expect them to cater to us. We have to cater to them if they are going to survive for any length of time. Please take the time out to read about proper aquarium husbandry before getting any more fish.

Depotfish...Most people use tap water and without the dechlor for any fish, they will die from the chlorine and chloramines in the water. For goldfish, I just use regular Amquel and never had a problem.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Depotfish, Doesn't the chlorine and chloramie eventually build up to toxic levels though?

Hi...

You are 50% correct. The Chlorine evaporates, no problems there. But Chloramine, stays in the water. and if the tank is able to cycle and you only replace evaporated water, yes, the chloramine will get more concentrated and deadly. That's just my opinion, would like to hear others.

 

[rich311k]

One plant is not going to effect anything in any way. During the day it will add some O2 but one plant in low light is going to do little.

Jrp chlorine gases off in 24 hours. If you did a small change you could get away with it. Chloramines is a different story. I would think sooner or later it is going to catch up with you.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Re: Just a question, perhaps not logical !

Dear forummers,

Most of us have studied Biology, or the Natural Sciences. We all know there are sometimes unique situations in living organisms.

I have a question here : Could the water plant that I added-in caused a deterioration of the oxygen content in the tank, ie during the day, oxygen is being consumed by the plant, and photosynthesis is NOT taking place ?

The tank is located at a place where there is light sunlight coming in, but of course, it is Not put in direct sunlight (which should not be the case anyway).

Could this plant be behaving abnormally, due to whatever reasons ? Or this plant may be 'unique' ?

Just a hunch - I wouldn't want my fishes to be competing with the water plant for oxygen. The role, at least during the day, should be oxygen -
complementary, and not 'competitive'.

At night, the pump should be playing its role, ie performing the purposeful aeration for both the fishes and the plant in my small tank.

Would appreciate advice on this too. TIA........

Do you know the exact name for the plant, or have a pic you can post?

Basically, the plant uses CO2 during the day, and I believe takes in O2 during the night for growth. A single plant will have no bearing on whether the fish will have enough O2 or not. The amount of O2 produced by just 1 plant is very minimal. Depending on the type of plant, it could be a low light plant, medium light plant, or a high light plant. And my guess if the plant is doing ok and is green, and is near sunlight, could be either low light or the lower end of medium light if the the ambient light is alot. But we don't know til we know exactly what the plant is. There are thousands of types of plants that grow in aquariums. And no, the fish will not compete with the plant for O2, the filter will provide plenty for both.

 

[Zagz]

I use declorinator with my goldies and they love their water changes. They act so silly racing around chasing each other after water changes, I swear they would smile if they could. My goldies seem sensitive to water parameter changes. I don't think mine would fair well at all without dechlorinator. I gave up on plants in their tank, they eat them all. Mind you they are big goldies.

 

[jrp1588]

Depotfish, Doesn't the chlorine and chloramie eventually build up to toxic levels though?

Hi...

You are 50% correct. The Chlorine evaporates, no problems there. But Chloramine, stays in the water. and if the tank is able to cycle and you only replace evaporated water, yes, the chloramine will get more concentrated and deadly. That's just my opinion, would like to hear others.

Eh, close enough. lol

 

[Roxanne]

Update !

My remora is very relaxed now in the water. The water plant is tied (or maybe grown, can't tell the difference) on a piece of driftwood.

I have read other posts here about the remora, which I will call a pleco now. Yes, I think it's a pleco after 'Googling' it.

Have also read about fish-rearing, the ammonia to nitrite to nitrate cycles, and fish-stress - which probably determines what sort of fishes that I could mix in the same tank.

The tank water is still clear, but I see residues floating around. Could be turning into white cloudy water soon, be'cos of algae ? Read this somewhere too. BUt, I will not use the Cloudiness Remover for now.

Again, the few pellets of fishfood that I dropped into the tank earlier today are still inside. Certainly hoped this food will kickstart the nitrate cycle.

I planned to wait for one more day. If the single pleco inside is still steady and happy (it's a sturdy fish, though), I may consider bringing in another single fish, perhaps another goldie ? Is having just one fish good ?

The pleco is alone now, and it seems happy.

Taking this opportunity to thank all contributors too.

 

[Roxanne]

Clarification !

why was the water cloudy in the first place that caused you to have to get a cloudiness remover? Sounds to me like the water was getting to a poor quality level, then you added the chemicals, changing things even more. May have just put the fish over the edge.

jrp,

Just saw something in your reply that I think I should clarify (in order that you will get the proper picture and can then advise me).

Yes, the water was getting to a poor quality level. But I did not merely add the Cloudiness Remover (CR), but I performed a, I recalled : 50% water change, then only added the CR.

I put in a water plant and some frozen worms too after that.

Would like to hear your side now. TIA,..........

 

[Roxanne]

Herbivores ?

arent goldfish herbivores?

DeFeKt,

You have a point there !

Are goldfishes truly : herbivores ? Pardon my ignorance, but guessed I never knew about this. I'd always thought that it would be good to change the food a bit, and not to provide pellets only.

I extend this question to the other forummers too : have you ever fed worms to your goldfishes ? What is the effect please ?

TIA again,.........

 

[rlebeau]

My goldies love worms. After a rain, I'll pick them off of the drive and toss them in the pond. The eat them very quickly. Never noticed any effect other than the fish getting fatter!

edit: not only do they eat worms. The eat any unfortunate bug the finds its way into the pond. Crickets, sowbugs(rollie-pollies), beetles, etc.

I do not declor water for the pond either.

To kinda get back on topic
I also lost several large goldfish to a pwc accident. Never figured out what actual cause of death. Chemical or suffocation.

If there is no algae for your pleco, feed him algae disks.