Jacobsal91
Aquarium Advice FINatic
Whats your input on keeping africans in brackish water? Ive had mine in a relativly high salinity for several years and its workin quite well.. Is this normal? They seem totally happy lol
African cichlids in brackish water?
- Thread starter Jacobsal91
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Wyomingite
Aquarium Advice Freak
How high of a salinity? What species? Low brackish is considered a specific gravity between 1.002 and 1.005, with high salinity brackish bein' 1.015 or higher. I've never done it with anything but kribs, but even if I had the inkling don't think I'd go much 'bove the 1.002 mark.
Several West African species naturally occur in brackish waters. With Rift Valley cichlids, at some point I suspect a point would be reached where the salinity would affect osmoregulation. True, the Rift Valley lakes are high in salt content. But those are various calcium, magnesium, and potassium salts, not sodium chloride. There is actually very little sodium in these lakes, while sea water is roughly 30% sodium, IIRC.
WYite
Several West African species naturally occur in brackish waters. With Rift Valley cichlids, at some point I suspect a point would be reached where the salinity would affect osmoregulation. True, the Rift Valley lakes are high in salt content. But those are various calcium, magnesium, and potassium salts, not sodium chloride. There is actually very little sodium in these lakes, while sea water is roughly 30% sodium, IIRC.
WYite
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Jacobsal91
Aquarium Advice FINatic
Ill have to test my salinity later tonight. But theres a female aratus, a male red zebra, and a male birchardi, ive ha them for quite a few years they seem very happy. There is a
Lot of salt creep on the top of my tank tho lol
Lot of salt creep on the top of my tank tho lol
Andrew McFadden
Aquarium Advice Addict
I think mine is at 1.007 of not its in the general area
Wyomingite
Aquarium Advice Freak
1.007? Wow.
My African tanks are at 1.000 with a GH of over 600 and a KH in the neighborhood of 280. pH is 8.4 straight outta the well. Needless to say, I don't add anything to my water for cichlids.
Gotta put a little effort into gettin' my water softer and the pH down for a few plants and SA and Asian fish species I keep. Generally, though, it's easier to just keep species that do well in hard water.
What kind of salts you guys adding to yer tanks, outta curiousity?
WYite
My African tanks are at 1.000 with a GH of over 600 and a KH in the neighborhood of 280. pH is 8.4 straight outta the well. Needless to say, I don't add anything to my water for cichlids.
Gotta put a little effort into gettin' my water softer and the pH down for a few plants and SA and Asian fish species I keep. Generally, though, it's easier to just keep species that do well in hard water.
What kind of salts you guys adding to yer tanks, outta curiousity?
WYite
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Jacobsal91
Aquarium Advice FINatic
I just used API aquarium salt and my brother put adash of instant ocean in there at one point. Pretty sure my PWC's removed that but idk its at like 1.010! And they uave been fine for years.. This is strange
Andrew McFadden
Aquarium Advice Addict
I use Epson salt
Wyomingite
Aquarium Advice Freak
Not necessarily strange. I really thought they'd have problems with that much sodium in the water. Lake Malawi has virtually no sodium. Tanganyika's chemistry is a bit more complex and it has a bit more, though I don't know the percentage.
Interesting, Andrew. I didn't realize epsom salts would raise the specific gravity that much. Of course, the only time I really worry 'bout specific gravity is in my brackish green spotted puffer tank.
Cool.
WYite
Andrew McFadden
Aquarium Advice Addict
Actually when I wrote the article for here (AA)I researched a lot of stuff. I think the high in Malawi was at 1.010 at certain times of the year. I'll see if I can find the water sample sheets I found on the web from the scientist/biologist when studying it.
Andrew McFadden
Aquarium Advice Addict
Great this is going to drive me nuts now that I can't find it. I need to start writing this stuff down or making bookmarks of it. Lol I believe it was a pdf bit I cleaned my phone out.
Wyomingite
Aquarium Advice Freak
LOL. I've been doin' some lookin' this morning, but can't find any info on specific gravities. Did discover Lake Tanganyika has significantly more sodium than Lake Malawi, though the exact amount varies by source.
I've never really considered these bodies as "brackish", that bein' a term reserved for water where estuaries meet the ocean and mixes. But when it comes right down to it, its just splitting hairs on definition.
WYite
I've never really considered these bodies as "brackish", that bein' a term reserved for water where estuaries meet the ocean and mixes. But when it comes right down to it, its just splitting hairs on definition.
WYite
Andrew McFadden
Aquarium Advice Addict
Well when searching today I came across an article that brackish is only a term we use but its still freshwater. It broke it down into 4 groups
Saltwater at 1.020-1.024
What we call brackish 1.010-1.20
Then this doesn't have a name 1.004-1.010 witch african Cichlids are apart of
I just tested mine and its between 1.004 and 1.008 but closer to 1.008 on a hydrometer. Ive noticed my fish seem to do better at this number then say at 1.004 or below
Then no salt - 1.004 freshwater
Saltwater at 1.020-1.024
What we call brackish 1.010-1.20
Then this doesn't have a name 1.004-1.010 witch african Cichlids are apart of
I just tested mine and its between 1.004 and 1.008 but closer to 1.008 on a hydrometer. Ive noticed my fish seem to do better at this number then say at 1.004 or below
Then no salt - 1.004 freshwater
The specific gravity is reflecting the general 'density' of the water. I imagine due to the dissolved mineral content of the rift lakes that this density would be somewhat significant.
However, as wyomingite suggested, in the rift lakes not much of their water density is due to 'sodium chloride'.
Unless I am mistaken (and I may be
), in this hobby the salt which makes water 'brackish' (or marine for that matter) is sodium chloride. The rift lakes are high pH, high-total dissolved content (TDS), alkaline bodies of water but not 'brackish' (if one closely associates that word with sodium chloride). (With that said there are a wide variety of 'salts' of which sodium chloride is but one type).
In this sense, I wouldn't think that water with a high general hardness (gH) or high magnesium sulfate ('epsom salt') content registering a 'specific gravity' of 1.025 would be considered 'saltwater'. Similarly, an aquarium owing its specific gravity of 1.007-1.010 to epsom salt wouldn't be considered brackish.
However, as wyomingite suggested, in the rift lakes not much of their water density is due to 'sodium chloride'.
Unless I am mistaken (and I may be
), in this hobby the salt which makes water 'brackish' (or marine for that matter) is sodium chloride. The rift lakes are high pH, high-total dissolved content (TDS), alkaline bodies of water but not 'brackish' (if one closely associates that word with sodium chloride). (With that said there are a wide variety of 'salts' of which sodium chloride is but one type).In this sense, I wouldn't think that water with a high general hardness (gH) or high magnesium sulfate ('epsom salt') content registering a 'specific gravity' of 1.025 would be considered 'saltwater'. Similarly, an aquarium owing its specific gravity of 1.007-1.010 to epsom salt wouldn't be considered brackish.
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Jacobsal91
Aquarium Advice FINatic
Interesting topic huh, Well they all seem happy just curious to know if these water parameters are abnormal
Wish i had better pics these are the best i got. Lol
Wish i had better pics these are the best i got. Lol
Wyomingite
Aquarium Advice Freak
Nice lookin' fish! Better pics than anything I have. I need a new camera, my cell just doesn't take real great pics. A fence, two new sets of tires, a new washing machine, and a kid startin' college kind of refocused my good intentions of buyin' a new camera this year.
I wasn't sayin' the Rift Lakes don't qualify as brackish in the strictest sense of the word, Andrew. Just sayin' in my mind, and a lotta other hobbyists as well I'm certain, the term "brackish" is associated with waters where saltwater and freshwater bodies mix, where the primary source of salts is sodium chloride. I've never really thought of them as brackish due to the relatively low concentration of sodium chloride in relation to seawater.
WYite
I wasn't sayin' the Rift Lakes don't qualify as brackish in the strictest sense of the word, Andrew. Just sayin' in my mind, and a lotta other hobbyists as well I'm certain, the term "brackish" is associated with waters where saltwater and freshwater bodies mix, where the primary source of salts is sodium chloride. I've never really thought of them as brackish due to the relatively low concentration of sodium chloride in relation to seawater.
WYite
Andrew McFadden
Aquarium Advice Addict
Wyomingite said:Nice lookin' fish! Better pics than anything I have. I need a new camera, my cell just doesn't take real great pics. A fence, two new sets of tires, a new washing machine, and a kid startin' college kind of refocused my good intentions of buyin' a new camera this year.
I wasn't sayin' the Rift Lakes don't qualify as brackish in the strictest sense of the word, Andrew. Just sayin' in my mind, and a lotta other hobbyists as well I'm certain, the term "brackish" is associated with waters where saltwater and freshwater bodies mix, where the primary source of salts is sodium chloride. I've never really thought of them as brackish due to the relatively low concentration of sodium chloride in relation to seawater.
WYite
I know no hurt feelings here I just want to show everyone what I found but can't find again. I think this OS a good topic
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