Alk and Ca problems

[douggiestyle]

wow nice posts so I can use or not use baking soda as bupher I bought seachem ph3 and the aragomilk should I take them back, I test for Kh but do not test for calcium alone, I have a GH test but understand this is not tested in saltwater. Do I need seperate calcium test kit.

if you buy the red sea calk it will come with the apprpiate test kits. its very easy to use and red sea gives very explicit directions on the testing of and scheduling dosage for your specific tank. ive never used anything else though, so i invite others to comment please.

 

[steve-s]

wow nice posts so I can use or not use baking soda as bupher I bought seachem ph3 and the aragomilk should I take them back

Unless your tank has a larger CaCO3 demand than weekly water changes can keep up with you might need them. I would not bother with the argamilk for any reason but the Saachem product might come in handy at some point. What is ph3? They have a few different types of buffers.

I test for Kh but do not test for calcium alone, I have a GH test but understand this is not tested in saltwater. Do I need seperate calcium test kit.

If this will be an FOWLR or FO it will not be essential but IME, maintaining proper chemistry goes along way to reducing problems in a healthy ecosystem. If you are planning on any type of reef tank, then definately get the calcium test as well as magnesium. I would also transition your current KH test kit to one that reads in mEq/l or DKH once it runs out, it can be much easier to find answers on line. Very few use ppm CaCO3.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Biggen]

Back to the same ol'e same ol'e...

For the last two days I have measured my Alk 24 hours after adding Seachem's Reef Builder. It has been 8DKH both days. Doesn't make sense as according to the bottle, the amount I am dosing should easily raise the Alk about 2.8 DKH per day. So it should easily be 11-12 DKH right now. I did a Mg test and it came out to 1300...

Now if I measure the Alk immediately after the addition of the buffer, it jumps up over 10 DKH. But somehow dwindles down during a 24 hour period. My Alk kit is extremely low so I should have another one coming in next week. Perhaps I do have a bad kit or something...

 

[steve-s]

It does make sense actually if that's what the tank uses. Instead of the 1 tspn, try a rounded tspn and see what that does. In order to raise the level, you need to add slightly more than the tank needs to surpass the daily consumption.

The other option would be large daily water changes... 8O

Cheers
Steve

 

[Biggen]

Well I am going to do a water change tomorrow. From my previous tests, Oceanic salt mix (which is what I use) measures out to 485 ppm CA and 8-8.5 DKH of Alk. I am thinking tomorrow when I get in that I will go ahead and up the Alk of the makeup water to around 11DKH and then perform the change.

It does make sense actually if that's what the tank uses. Instead of the 1 tspn, try a rounded tspn and see what that does. In order to raise the level, you need to add slightly more than the tank needs to surpass the daily consumption.

Actually, I have been using two rounded tspns as that should raise 40 gallons of water approx 1 meq/l according to the instructions. This is the maximum recommended dose as well....

Does this seem normal, though, that I should have to dose this much alk in a tank daily just to hold 8DKH? I'll be glad when I get my new kit in order to double check these figures.

The wonders of reefkeeping...

 

[douggiestyle]

have you been checking ph? if ph is low it wil utilize the additional hardness

 

[steve-s]

Does this seem normal, though, that I should have to dose this much alk in a tank daily just to hold 8DKH? I'll be glad when I get my new kit in order to double check these figures.

Doesn't make much sense at all really unless there are other environmental conditions at work. Douggie has brought up a very important one ph. I am sure you are aware of the more common problems but you may also want to explore that a bit more. Including airflow in the room, air borne chems or other CO2 contaminates such as gas stoves or other natural gas equip.

2 tspn of buffer is rather excessive on a daily basis just to maintain a 40 gal tank. I will be intersted to see what results your new test kit may yield. How has the Ca behaved since you stopped dosing the CaCl?

Cheers
Steve

 

[Biggen]

have you been checking ph? if ph is low it wil utilize the additional hardness

I do check the pH every so often but not on a regular basis. Eveytime I test it, it is always about the same: ~7.9 right before the lights come on and 8.2-8.3 during the light period all the way until the lights go off. Pretty normal I believe...

How has the Ca behaved since you stopped dosing the CaCl?

You know, I haven't even tested for Ca for the past few days since I have been playing around with the alk. I will test for it this morning before I do the water change and report back. I would imagine it has fallen from its previous level of 390 ppm. But I'll check to be sure.

When I do a water change today I am going to break down some of the pumps and take a good look at the heater to see if there is any major precipitation going on as well. Perhaps my Alk is sky high and my test kit just isn't reporting that and that could be leading to some precipitation.

I want to thank you both so much for all your help thus far. I am determined that we will get this figured out.

 

[douggiestyle]

Perhaps my Alk is sky high and my test kit just isn't reporting that and that could be leading to some precipitation.

try mixing some salt water (a gallon would be enough) according to the salt mix specs (most salt mix companies give a alk and ca level when mixed to a certain sg) and test the water to see if you get a result similar to the specs. this should tell you if your tests are relatively good, or not. be carefull, some companies give specs that use ordinary tap water with there mix. i guess they use some sort of nationwide average?

 

[Biggen]

Well I tested for Ca this morning before the water change and it had dropped to around ~350 ppm which is expected.

My Alk kit is depleted now. I am not going to worry about messing with the Alk anymore until I get my new kits in next week. Hopefully that will shed some light on the subject.

Good idea douggiesyle! When I get my new kit in, I'll give it a try.

 

[cj10488]

What I have done with my Oceanic salt is Mixed up a 30gal bucket full of It.. I add about 2tbsp of 6:1 ration Baking soda/Washing soda.. It brings my water change water up to about 3.43meq/l which is right about where my tank is.. After that I just let the Ca reactor keep it at those levels... My calcium will always be higher... I would use the 6:1 ratio for alk as it seems alot stronger Just test after the first tbsp LOL..

HTH<
James

 

[Biggen]

Ok, I got my new Alk and Ca Salifert test kits in today. Justed tested the tank and this is what I got:

Alk - 6.7DKH
Ca - 420 ppm

Now I have been using Kalk to topoff the tank. I have an auto topoff installed, and it doses the saturated Kalk as water evaporates.

So these numbers are inline with what I was thinking they would be. Heavy alk consumption and the kalk can't keep up, while there is some Ca consumption and the Kalk is doing a fairly decent job at that.

I went ahead and dosed 1 tsp of Reef Builder. According to the instructions that should raise the Alk by ~1.4 DKH. I'll do this every day until my target 10-11DKH has been hit. We will see what happens.

Oh, BTW, I will hold off on Ca until I get the Alk straightened out as per Steve's instructions. I think 420 is pretty good anyway but I'll probably bump it up to 450.

 

[cj10488]

I would skip the reefbuilder and use something like Kent super DKH or Reefrunners 6:1 mix.. It will yeild better results.. I have used seachem products many times and find them very weak at best... I like the 6:1 mix to balance things out.. After that Kalk should work for you..


James

 

[reefrunner69]

How much kalk is being dosed? and is your alk steady or does it fall and fall and fall? I seem to remember that kalk will actually lower alk if dosed too much too quick. Also, how are you mixing your kalk?

 

[Biggen]

would skip the reefbuilder and use something like Kent super DKH or Reefrunners 6:1 mix.

I was thinking about picking up the Kent Super DKH next time at the fish store. I am actually running out of the Reef Builder anyway.

The only problem I have with Kent products is that there is never any information about how much of the dose actually affects the system. Seachem usually states what will happen in a 40 gallon tank with one dose of the product. That way you can generalize how much of the product you should use to get the desired result. Kent Marine doesn't do this. They simply say what you should use per gallon without telling you what amount of "x" chemical you are raising.

How much kalk is being dosed? and is your alk steady or does it fall and fall and fall? I seem to remember that kalk will actually lower alk if dosed too much too quick. Also, how are you mixing your kalk?

Hard to say how much is being dosed as the auto topoff takes care of everything. I would say that probably 1 - 1.25 gallons per day is dosed into the sump. The fan I have down there increases the evaporation rate quite a bit.

The is the first time I have checked for Alk in a week so I am not sure what the level has been doing. I do know that I have always had a constant low Alk for some time.

I mix the Kalk by putting in approx 15 rounded teaspoons of Kalk into my topoff container. I then pump in FW into there so that it can mix. It then sits for approx 5 hours before I turn on the auto topoff pump to begin dosing it in the tank.

 

[cj10488]

I was thinking about picking up the Kent Super DKH next time at the fish store. I am actually running out of the Reef Builder anyway.

Why not try the 6:1 baking soda - washing Soda mix.. I believe its 1tbsp per 20g to raise Dkh 1meq/l It works rather well for me and is the same as most Alk supplements.. I would add enough for 20g at first and see the results in a few hours... I use it in my SW mix to get the Oceanic Salt mix to the proper alk level +- a few dkh... Its very cheap and much much cheaper than the Kent stuff...

The only problem I have with Kent products is that there is never any information about how much of the dose actually affects the system

Should be about the Same as the 6:1 mix.. 1tbsp per 20g to raise about 1meq/l I have never used it as I prefer the cheaper 6:1 mix As long as its not used on a very regular basis like in my case 1 tbsp in my 30g bucket of SW.. thats the only time i will use it LOL..

James

 

[reefrunner69]

It actually raises it 1 DKH rather than meq/L, it is sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) and sodium carbonate (Arm & Hammer washing soda).

 

[Biggen]

Well I tested my Alk this morning and it is up to 8.2 DKH. I am getting it up there bit by bit. Just wanted to post an update... As soon as I get it to around 10DKH, I'll fiddle with the Ca a little ot get it up to around 450 ppm.

 

[steve-s]

As soon as I get it to around 10DKH, I'll fiddle with the Ca a little ot get it up to around 450 ppm.

430 ppm Ca would be better for that alk level. Also be sure you monitor the Mg while you do this. It will fall out of solution with the constant buffer additions. It wouldn't hurt to bring the Mg levels up to 1500 ppm for now. Just be sure any Mg is dosed several hours after a buffer addition or you will end up with Magnesium Carbonate if dosed too close together.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Biggen]

430 ppm Ca would be better for that alk level.

Yeah, I should have looked at Andy's site before saying that.

I checked the Alk this morning after adding 2 tsp of Reef Builder yesterday. It hadn't risen a bit, still at 8.2 DKH. I believe James is correct in that the Reef Builder seems to be weak for some reason. For whatever reason, it can't seem to raise the Alk beyond 8 DKH.

So, I went ahead and used some baking soda I had on hand this morning to adjust the Alk since the Reef Builder is not doing the job any longer. I checked the Alk about 4 hours after the addition and it was up to 10.2 DKH. I'll check it again tomorrow (24 hours after the dose) and see if is above 8 DKH.

I'll check the Mg level as well tomorrow to see what is going on there. Luckily, Oceanic salt has a Mg level that is extraordinarily high. Around ~1350 out of the box. Hopefully, it is still high enough...