Am I a breeder now?????

[Andy Sager]

I hatch out my brine shrimp and use a turkey baster ( from the $1.00 store) to blow the hatched shrimp towards the fry. The syringe is the same principle but might be a little tougher to use.
Brine shrimp eggs are dried so that they last longer. Some reports say they last 100 years if kept properly after opening. I used some that were 30 years old ( that I saved from my last hatchery) and had no problems with them so this could be true. If you don;t want to get into the live foods, Bob McCoy had good success feeding frozen baby brine shrimp to his fry. Ask your LFS if they have it or can get it for you. You only need to use a little at each feeding in the beginning so don't be concerned that the package is so small. Thaw some out in some tank water then squirt it towards the fry so that it is moving and they see it. You will know if they are eating it by the orange bellies they get from eating.
Hatching brine shrimp eggs has long been thought to be a hassle to many people but it's not at all. I've used everything from a pickle jar to 5 gal water cooler containers with no issues. This is what I do:
You will need an adjustable heater, a thermometer, a fluorescent light (most brands now suggest light for optimum hatching), some airline, an airstone, an air pump, non iodized salt, a container (preferably glass) that can hold at least 1/2 gal of water and water.
Make the temp of the water between 88 and 90 degrees.
Make a solution equal to 5 tablespoons of salt per 1 gal of water. (2 1/2 Tablespoons per 1/2 gal of water)
Make sure airpump is pumping enough air to circulate the bs eggs and they don't cluster on the bottom.
Make sure airstone produces larger bubbles or airline has a weight to hold it down at the bottom of the container. Position the end so that the water circulates in a circle.

This is my steps to having live brine within 24 hours:
My heaters are already set to the temp and I just place them in one of the other BS jars when I clean and set up a new jar. (I use 3 jars)
I add the water, the right amount of salt for the amount of water (This pic is of a 1/2 gal glass bowl so it gets 2 1/2 tablespoons of salt), the eggs.
I take the bowl back outside (I keep mine outside) and put the heater back in the bowl, the airstone back into the bowl, cover with the aluminum foil top I made to stop the splashing then go about my business. By the next day, I have live baby brine shrimp. Use immediately.
For most small spawns, I start with about 1/8 teaspoon of eggs. If you see this is not enough or too much, adjust accordingly but in small amounts. I use 3 jars ( morning, afternoon and evening feedings) so you make the adjustment on the next bowl and so on. (FYI: with all the spawns I have, I've currently only gone up to 1 full teaspoon of eggs to feed all my smaller fry so don't waste your eggs. )
At about 2 weeks, I add some decapsulated brine shrimp as a feeding and at 3 weeks of age, I start using crushed growth flakes as one feeding until the fry start eating more flakes than shrimp then just convert to flakes in the grow out tanks.

As you read ( or will read) in the wigglers thread, raising Angels requires some work. These are not like livebearer fry or even some other Cichlids. Shortcuts usually end in disaster. Many studies have shown ( and some links to them were posted in Wigglers), live newly hatched brine shrimp is the best food to feed the fry for maximum health and growth. Flakes came in last. The choice is yours.

Hope this helps

 

[Andy Sager]

Agh that's great that i don't have to worry about the GH so much was just in the aquarium shop and they tell me the water in our area is/should be soft so maybe regular water changes will take it down slowly I'll check the tap water when i get home and see.
As for the eggs maybe they are a second spawn the wrigglers are free now but parents are having a good job keeping them together and most of them eggs are white couple of clear ones in them though
Was trying to get brime shrimp but they only have large ones that are about the same size as the fry so he says they will be no good and better to crush up flakes and give them instead cant figure out how to get them down to the fry though?
He was also recomending a breeding net to put in the tank would that be a good idea? And if so how will i catch the fry to out in it? It would make feeding easier
I'm guessing if they are free swimming now i should be feeding them already?

It's not the best idea to isolate the fry in such a small area like a breeder net. At this point, if you can get them to eat while with the parents, I'd just leave them there. If not, I use a siphon hose to gather the fry to move them into their own tank. Once the fry are eating, the only reason for being with the parents is for protection. In your case, keep the cardinals fat and happy and they should leave your fry alone.
As for your water hardness, if your tap water is soft and acidic but your tank water is hard and alkaline, you have something in the tank causing this. If you have any kind of calcium based decor in the tank, your hardness will stay high as will your PH. Water changes with soft, lower PH water will bring it down only until the decor brings it back up and this is actually worse for the fish than having at a constant level. In order to keep the calcium based decor in the tank and the fish happy, make more frequent, smaller volume, water changes so that there is little change in the chemistry while diluting the nitrate level.

 

[conor]

After a little searching i restored to YouTube doesn't look to be too difficult just a little extra cost
All seemed well this morning the fry are around momma now instead of getting hearded up against the back wall of the tank and numbers seem to be the same so I'll keep up what I'm doing for now

 

[conor]

Didn't notice them replys before i made my last post andy some more great info thanks again i read in the wigglers thread that you have breed over a million angels but i bet you are responsible for many million successful angels with your help here
I'm very suprised that my local fish store doesn't have eggs they would be one of the best in Victoria i didn't ask for eggs though as i had sèen brine shrimp there so fingers crossed that they have them
It will be a bit of an overspend for all thats left but if breeding is as regular and unstoppable as everyone says it will balance out in the long run i hope

 

[Andy Sager]

Didn't notice them replys before i made my last post andy some more great info thanks again i read in the wigglers thread that you have breed over a million angels but i bet you are responsible for many million successful angels with your help here
I'm very suprised that my local fish store doesn't have eggs they would be one of the best in Victoria i didn't ask for eggs though as i had sèen brine shrimp there so fingers crossed that they have them
It will be a bit of an overspend for all thats left but if breeding is as regular and unstoppable as everyone says it will balance out in the long run i hope

Just to be clear, I've produced more than a million Angels not bred that many. But I have bred at least 200+ pairs of Angels in my career. 100 pairs were in just one hatchery so I have a little more insight to the craziness these fish do get as not all Angels act the same. Just look at my 1/2 black male. I call him Mr Lunatic for a reason. ; ) lol
Hopefully my re-involvement with Angels can help get some better quality fish back on to the market. As you read in Wigglers, there is a lot of crap out there and that just shouldn't be. So hopefully, as you become a breeder ( on purpose ) , you'll join the ranks of those selling only good fish and not every fish they produce.

For BS eggs, if your store needs to order them, it might be faster to find them on Ebay. I started with some from a supplier on there ( after I ran out of my old stock) before I started getting the big cans of eggs.

As for frequency of spawns, the only way to stop them is to not take care of them properly or separating them. They breed like rabbits. You've been warned.

 

[conor]

I just got my bs and started them off I'm not feeling very optimistic about them for some reason maybe that the jar looked to have been there a while(not refrigerated) and had no airtight seal on it also think my air pump is a little to strong but I'll see how it goes i can't do much worse for a first try considering it was all accidental

 

[conor]

My babies have vanished over night ?
Probably for the best though as i was down to about 20 and only just got my brine shrimp hatching

Have my small tank cleaned so I'll fill it and get the heater and filter running in it today and get a slate in to my tank for the next spawn so i can pull the eggs next time ?

Watch this space ?

 

[conor]

My brine shrimp hatched very hard to tell whats alive and whats eggs though but at least i know that they work

Would a tile work instead of a slate? Went to the hardware store today but they don't sell slates i have some tiles here that would fit nice there vey smooth on the front (white) but the back is rough and a bit darker so i hope that might do the trick?

Also how long is the egg tube on them when its out? I think I seen it b4 but thought it was poop at the time it was about 10mm long I do see something sticking out atm but only 1mm long she has a big belly but i don't think she could be ready yet although she has been hanging out behind the rock with the waterfall i hope she is just sulking that she lost her babies as that would be the worst place to spawn its right be side the filter inlet and i can't really see there so if there was wrigglers they would be sucked straight into the filter

I also invested in a new 3ft tank and stand $ 80 with a good light, 2 hang on filters, gravel cleaner syphon, air pump,brand new automatic feeder and a heater that may work so I'll be ready for the next spawn

 

[Andy Sager]

My brine shrimp hatched very hard to tell whats alive and whats eggs though but at least i know that they work

Would a tile work instead of a slate? Went to the hardware store today but they don't sell slates i have some tiles here that would fit nice there vey smooth on the front (white) but the back is rough and a bit darker so i hope that might do the trick?

Also how long is the egg tube on them when its out? I think I seen it b4 but thought it was poop at the time it was about 10mm long I do see something sticking out atm but only 1mm long she has a big belly but i don't think she could be ready yet although she has been hanging out behind the rock with the waterfall i hope she is just sulking that she lost her babies as that would be the worst place to spawn its right be side the filter inlet and i can't really see there so if there was wrigglers they would be sucked straight into the filter

I also invested in a new 3ft tank and stand $ 80 with a good light, 2 hang on filters, gravel cleaner syphon, air pump,brand new automatic feeder and a heater that may work so I'll be ready for the next spawn

For your brine shrimp, darken the area where your shrimp are and use a small flashlight concentrated on a small area and the live shrimp will congregate at that light. Unhatched eggs will sink, egg shells will float. I use a small piece of rigid tubing attached to a long piece of airline tubing and siphon out the live shrimp into a brine shrimp net. ( These nets are made specifically for collecting brine shrimp so if the net doesn't say " Brine Shrimp Net", it's not the right one. )
Breeding Slate: You can use the rough side of your tile or even a piece of 2" or 3" PVC pipe or a clay / terra cotta plant pot as a spawning site as well. The thing to remember is if you use these items but want to hatch out the eggs yourself, the breeding site has to fit into where you are going to hatch them. ( You may recall in the wiggler's thread, I had to have a piece of the shale hang outside of the bottle because it didn't fit all the way in. )

Filtering: I strongly suggest you switch from your HOB to a sponge filter for the breeding and hatching tanks. This way, nothing ( ie sperm) is being removed from the water when it is being filtered.

Breeding tubes vary by size of fish but in general, they will be short. Male's can look even shorter than female's tube. It's the shape that's most important. male's will look like a pencil point while female's will look like the eraser end of the pencil.

Hope this helps.

 

[conor]

Ok my girl is getting big was expecting eggs a few days ago but still no sign so I've been reading the wigglers thread (still not half way through) it reminds me of getting a box set of a tv series im so happy i don't have to wait for the next post lol

Anyway what i came to ask is meth blue essential? Do any of you not use it when hatching eggs? I think I have everything else ready need to swap heaters about other than that im sorted

 

[conor]

After hiding around the corner and watching my pair for a while i think they have picked there spawning spot unfortunately its not the tile but at least its not the large rock by the filter its the leafs of the living plant thats on my piece of driftwood it should be easy to move and probably good for the spawning tank.
They were both cleaning the leafs and she was nudging him and pointing him back towards them when he stopped it was very cute so hope to have eggs by morning

 

[Andy Sager]

Ok my girl is getting big was expecting eggs a few days ago but still no sign so I've been reading the wigglers thread (still not half way through) it reminds me of getting a box set of a tv series im so happy i don't have to wait for the next post lol

Anyway what i came to ask is meth blue essential? Do any of you not use it when hatching eggs? I think I have everything else ready need to swap heaters about other than that im sorted

M blue is not necessary if you are letting the parents hatch out the eggs but if you are doing, some form of anti- fungal medication will help tremendously. I use M Blue because that's all I've ever used however, I know others have used hydrogen peroxyde, and other similar products to prevent the dead eggs from fungusing. You'll need to do some research on quality and proper dosage, etc for these other products.

Hope this helps

 

[conor]

Thanks andy as suspected I have eggs this morning on the live plant on driftwood they were all clear so i pulled them just b4 i left for work and put them in my hatchery don't have m blue though will try and get some later would it damage my driftwood or plant?

Not a very large amount of eggs but its only there second spawn so will be a good one to learn from ��

 

[Andy Sager]

Thanks andy as suspected I have eggs this morning on the live plant on driftwood they were all clear so i pulled them just b4 i left for work and put them in my hatchery don't have m blue though will try and get some later would it damage my driftwood or plant?

Not a very large amount of eggs but its only there second spawn so will be a good one to learn from ��

M Blue will stain your things so it might be better to use the Hydrogen Peroxyde ( & that should be easier to get quickly as well). For what it's worth, I only keep materials in the breeder tank that can handle being in M Blue so I don't have this issue.

 

[conor]

I have ordered some M blue online will use it in future spawns if i can prevent them spawning on my plant's next time, any suggestions on how to do that? Or would i be best to just remove the driftwood/plant when i see them preparing
I will see how much the hydrogen peroxide is in the lfs later would i have any success rate if i don't use any thing for this spawn?

 

[Andy Sager]

I have ordered some M blue online will use it in future spawns if i can prevent them spawning on my plant's next time, any suggestions on how to do that? Or would i be best to just remove the driftwood/plant when i see them preparing
I will see how much the hydrogen peroxide is in the lfs later would i have any success rate if i don't use any thing for this spawn?

The only way I know to prevent fish from breeding on or in certain items is to not have those items in the tank. You can't stop them from breeding wherever they want ( I have some Angels that breed on the side glass and some on the bottom glass ) but if you give them opportunities to only use things you want them to use, it's works out more often than not.
Will you have success if you use nothing? Maybe. It all depends on how many eggs die from being unfertilized.

 

[threnjen]

I will see how much the hydrogen peroxide is in the lfs?

This you won't get at the LFS, they sell it at drugstores, Target, Walmart, probably even the grocery store. Look in the first aid area like with the bandaids, it's often used for disinfection.

 

[conor]

Thanks threnjen
I got directed there by the lfs and got some yesterday only $4 for a bottle i had some trouble finding the recommended amount to use seems its more used for growing weed than anything else lol but did find some one on another site saying 10 drops per gallon so i went with that well a bit less as i was using my oral syringe and i thought the drops were bigger than normal
After checking the eggs last night i could only see 3 white eggs so he must have done a good job
I also done water tests on all my tanks as i had an early finish from work yesterday was shocked and a little worried to see ammonia in my main tank at 1.0 but put it down to an automatic feeder that i put on last week i guess it was over feeding so i lowered the feeds and done a 40% water change will do the same again on Saturday
Do you guys use water conditioner when doing changes or what kind do you use i have water ageing/conditioner drops and crystals and another liquid conditioner i have been chopping and changing between them, they came with the tank (do they have a use by date)

 

[conor]

Yea i have wigglers (just about) it looks more like a clear cloud over them atm should i start hatching my BS tonight or now?
Have a couple of spots of white on them so i guess the hydrogen peroxide didn't do as good of a job as the M blue would have but it obviously helped a bit as they are very minor
And i have got the ammonia in my main tank back down to 0.25 with a few water changes (1×50% & 2×20%) and not using the automatic feeder so should be at 0 in a couple of days will be doing a 50% change again tomorrow

 

[Andy Sager]

Yea i have wigglers (just about) it looks more like a clear cloud over them atm should i start hatching my BS tonight or now?
Have a couple of spots of white on them so i guess the hydrogen peroxide didn't do as good of a job as the M blue would have but it obviously helped a bit as they are very minor
And i have got the ammonia in my main tank back down to 0.25 with a few water changes (1×50% & 2×20%) and not using the automatic feeder so should be at 0 in a couple of days will be doing a 50% change again tomorrow

White eggs are unavoidable because when the eggs are dead, they turn white. What the M Blue or Peroxyde does is prevent a fungus from coming over the dead eggs and spreading to the healthy babies.

You won't need to hatch out the brine shrimp until the fry are free swimming (which should be in 3-7 days.) I wait until the day the fry start free swimming to start up the shrimp factory as the fry can live off the nutrition they got from their last day of absorbing their yolk sac. Brine shrimp should take about 18-24 hours to hatch depending on brand and temp of the water. You want to time the hatch of the brine shrimp so that you can feed them to the fry within 4-6 hours of them hatching. This is when the shrimp will be their most nutritious for your fry. The older the shrimp are, the more energy they have used up making them less than an ideal food.

Hope this helps