ammomia toxicity/fancy goldfish loss

[glassbird]

This is probably a hopeless post, but I feel like I need to at least try.

I took on 6 fancy goldfish about a month ago from someone who did not want them. I had to take them fast (long story) and all I had for a quarantine tank was a 10 gallon with a Whisper2 filter. I knew it was going to be too small but I could not risk putting these fish into my 75 gallon tank. I put cycled media (a much used filter pad) in the filter and did daily 50% water changes with Stress Coat. First they developed ich (treated with a heater set to 80 degrees) and salt. That cleared up within a few days but I kept them in the 10 gallon because I know that stuff can hang around even without visible spots. I continued with the salt and the daily water changes. The ammonia level hovered between 1.0 ppm and 2.0 ppm (tested right before the daily WC) and the ph right around 6.8. After about 2 weeks, I tried "Prime" as an ammonia lowering product, but I am almost convinced that the Prime is what raised the pH from a constant 6.4 or 6.8 to 7.8 in ONE DAY! I have lived here for 9 years, and never was able to get my pH up above 7.0 without constant monitoring, and adjusting with crushed coral and baking soda in my 75 gallon tank. But I try Prime...and it shoots up to 7.8? I went back to the Stress Coat.

Anyway, shortly after the ick cleared up, the smallest fish died. Then the second smallest fish started to swim "funny", then ended up at the bottom of the tank, on his side, flaring his gills so hard that he was bouncing up and down. It was terrible to see. Then the another fish in the tank did the same thing. The first one died, and then the second. I moved the remaining three fish (slowly) to a 29 gallon tank, fully cycled, 0 ppm ammonia, 7.0 pH. No salt, temp at about 64 degrees. They looked ok for a few days, quiet maybe, and now the are all floating on their sides or backs, barely moving, clearly on their ways out.

I feel like a total failure. Is there anything I can do for them now, or is it too late? Short of putting them right into my established tanks without quarantine, what should I have done? Buying a larger tank for quarantine was not financially an option. I am so discouraged...

CT

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Maybe a mod can move this to the freshwater sick forum?

 

[Zagz]

Moved to FW unhealthy fish.

 

[jsoong]

Sorry for all the loss & kudos for trying!

It is tough to keep that many goldfish alive in a 10 gal, esp. when they are big. For a QT, you don't need anything fancy. I have a 30 gal rubbermaid tub for $15 & use that. It give a larger water volume & more stable parameters.

I don't think Prime will change the pH (never for me ... but my pH is 7.8 to start .....) We can explore what caused that, but what is past is past ... deal with the fish first.

I would not put those fish into your established tank (what are in there? as goldies won't mix well with tropicals.) Even with compatible fish, I would wait a month after an episode like this to end the QT.

What to do with the fish? I suspect that they got ich from being stressed with poor water parameters. <What was the NITRITE level BTW?> Salt is good, although high heat is a bit tricky as you need good O2 exchange with goldies & heat, & you don't have the surface area in a 10 gal ....

Your fish seemed to be suffering from either gill dysfunction (due to ammonia burns, or nitrite posioning) &/or swimbladder malfunction (again from ammonia, high nitrate, or a bacterial infection due to the stress.) Putting the fish in a bigger setup is a start. You should aim to create as much air exchange as possible, water splashing from the filter, an airstone or two. You might want to maintain at least a 0.05% salt to help with nitrite posioning. Temp at 68 is a bit low (I know that has more O2), as fancies like to be in the low 70's and the higher temp will boost the immunity. You would need to maintain pristine water conditions .... that might mean large daily or twice daily water changes.

That is about all you can do at this point. Antibiotics may be tried, but I don't think they do too much good (even with an opportunistic infection) when the original problem is a water quality issue.

 

[Nyquil Junkie]

ya know what makes a good tank for newly adopted goldfish?

A 55 gal rain barrel. set it where the rain will wash into it and overflow it when it rains.

it's like goldfish heaven. Space, cool water, bugs to eat. You don"t even have to test the water.

If you live in a warm climate, they can live in there forever. if its a cold climate the barrel will freeze of course.

That's where a basement comes in handy. Put a 55 gal barrel in the basement in the coolest corner you can find. They will winter over in that barrel happy as pigs in slop.

Drop an airstone in there to keep the water moving.

There is always someone around who didnt realize how big goldfish get so, its a good idea to have a guest room ready to drop them into.

 

[glassbird]

update...

Over the course of the day today, all three of the remaining fish died.

jsoong: Thank you for the thoughtfull and informative reply...in answer to your question, my 75 gallon tank has 4 large fancy goldfish, all in good health. The 29 gallon tank housed my 9 comets who live in a pond outside during the warmer months. I was in the process of buying and installing a 100 gallon Rubbermaid stock tank for the pond fish when these new fish arrived. The comets were moved into this new "indoor pond" faster than I had planned, so that the remaining new fish could have their cycled tank. I think I made some big mistakes when I moved the new fish from the 10 gallon into the established 29 gallon...I should have continued with salt and upped the temp from 64 (room temp in my house in the winter) to the mid 70s...but again it was a financial problem. The salt could have been done easily (salt is cheap!) but I do not have a heater for that tank, and the one in the 10 gallon is too small.

I am going to try to look at all of this as a learning experience...a miserable, depressing, learning experience. I now know more about ich than I ever did before, and have a much better understanding of ammonia and pH issues.

Nyquil Junkie: funny you should mention a rain barrel in the basement...the new 100 gallon stock tank is basically the same thing, but with more surface area! The comets seem pretty happy down there, but its much colder than their previous accomodations in the 29 gallon tank in my living room! Oh, well. I will make it up to them in the Spring...their old pond is going to be doubled in size...and a waterfall added as well!

Thanks for the help...

CT

 

[Nyquil Junkie]

oh good idea... a stock tank.
much more pond like than a water barrel!

I might have to put one in and toss the water drums.
lol