So the tank cycle has been taking forever to complete no matter what I have tried. Currently if I test in the morning Ammonia is just under .25ppm and Nitrites at 1.0-2.0ppm, Nitrates at 5ppm. This is where it sits now for weeks. Out of curiosity I tested my tap water. It read .50ppm, higher than my tank water. So I gather that the tank is able to process some of the ammonia, but is this slowing down my cycle from completing because not enough BB to get rid of all of it yet? Using Prime to detoxify but was considering buying a couple of the big jugs of bottled water from local grocery store to do a water change with to see if it makes a difference or not. Or is the ammonia the test is picking up a byproduct of something else that isn't as harmful to the fish?
ammonia in tap water while cycling tank
- Thread starter kbalaz
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone with an interest in aquariums or fish keeping!
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
kphilly2017
Aquarium Advice Activist
Hey there kbalaz,
Before addressing your primary question I wanted to ask if you were dechlorinating your tap water. If so, great! If not, then you need to consider this as it poses a very harmful risk to your living inhabits once you introduce them. Chlorine and Chloramine, are extremely harmful to fish and aquatic creatures. I’m a saltwater person, and even I use pure water when mixing my salt. I purchased a RO/DI unit and I recommend them to not only saltwater users, but freshwater users alike. Tap water poses way to many trace elements that can be harmful or promote the growth of nuisance algae. You can find these units for a good price or used all across the internet. If not an option, I would consider at least making sure that you use a dechlorinator or product that will remove harmful minerals from the water.
With that being said, it sounds like your cycle is stalled. If you are introducing new tap water to the system, this may actually be your problem, in my opinion. Tap water is designed to eliminate microbes or pathogens that can be harmful to humans or other animals such as cats, dogs, horses, cows, etc. It makes the water more safe to drink. In my opinion however, when introduced to an aquarium, especially one that is cycling, it would make since that if these chemicals aren’t removed that they could be killing of some of your beneficial bacteria. Possibly, there’s not enough of the chemicals to actually wipe out your colony, but possibly reduce them. I would do maybe a 50% water change. Give it 24 hours, and test your parameters again. Then if you need to add water or anything for future use, be sure that it is either treated with a dechlorinator or it is just pure water.
If your water is being treated, then we need to get more details to see if we can’t limit it to a source. So if you will, post your PH and your micro parameters as well. If that is an option for you! If we find your water is okay, and nothing is leaching into the system, it could just be your natural cycle is taking this long. Every system is different. Dechlorinators and water treatment products can be found easily at any local fish store or online. Good luck! Let me know what you decide to do and how it all goes!
Before addressing your primary question I wanted to ask if you were dechlorinating your tap water. If so, great! If not, then you need to consider this as it poses a very harmful risk to your living inhabits once you introduce them. Chlorine and Chloramine, are extremely harmful to fish and aquatic creatures. I’m a saltwater person, and even I use pure water when mixing my salt. I purchased a RO/DI unit and I recommend them to not only saltwater users, but freshwater users alike. Tap water poses way to many trace elements that can be harmful or promote the growth of nuisance algae. You can find these units for a good price or used all across the internet. If not an option, I would consider at least making sure that you use a dechlorinator or product that will remove harmful minerals from the water.
With that being said, it sounds like your cycle is stalled. If you are introducing new tap water to the system, this may actually be your problem, in my opinion. Tap water is designed to eliminate microbes or pathogens that can be harmful to humans or other animals such as cats, dogs, horses, cows, etc. It makes the water more safe to drink. In my opinion however, when introduced to an aquarium, especially one that is cycling, it would make since that if these chemicals aren’t removed that they could be killing of some of your beneficial bacteria. Possibly, there’s not enough of the chemicals to actually wipe out your colony, but possibly reduce them. I would do maybe a 50% water change. Give it 24 hours, and test your parameters again. Then if you need to add water or anything for future use, be sure that it is either treated with a dechlorinator or it is just pure water.
If your water is being treated, then we need to get more details to see if we can’t limit it to a source. So if you will, post your PH and your micro parameters as well. If that is an option for you! If we find your water is okay, and nothing is leaching into the system, it could just be your natural cycle is taking this long. Every system is different. Dechlorinators and water treatment products can be found easily at any local fish store or online. Good luck! Let me know what you decide to do and how it all goes!
Yes, I am use Prime as a dechlorinator and have since the beginning. I started a fishless cycle using Prime and Stability and it was going no where. I added 3 Zebra Danios and everything started up fine. I realize I made a mistake by doing a pretty thorough gravel vac and have tried skipping water changes here and there and just using Prime. I realize it has stalled, but was wondering if bottled water might help to kick it up again. PH is 7.6-7.8. I have been posting in a few other threads and have been following the advice given by everyone else and it is pretty consistent. I am just curious as to how to deal with the ammonia in the tap water if Prime is good enough to deal with it and should I dose every 24 or 48 hours. I was doing daily water changes of either 25 or 50% for weeks, again, may have contributed to the stall as well. Temperature in tank is 77F, using a Penguin 150b filter with extra media in the back and extra bag of media on the substrate behind a plant. Also switched from Stability only to Tetra Safe Start and Stability together to see if that might get some more BB to get going. As far as other parameters, I am using the API Master test kit, so can only test what it allows.
kphilly2017
Aquarium Advice Activist
Alright, I find in these times it's best to look at what we know, what we are doing, what we see, and the results we are expecting. It helps keep the information more organized, and if anyone has a solution it makes the thread much easier to follow.
Your parameters in the morning have tested as:
Ammonia: .25ppm
Nitrite: 1.0 - 2.0ppm
Nitrates: 5 ppm
Tap water ammonia level was .50ppm higher than the tank's, which means we can assume that your actual tap water's ammonia level is .75ppm
So, we know that the cycle is stalled. You started the cycle as fishless while dosing prime and stability, but you initially received no results. Those results you were looking for were the beginning of the breakdown of ammonia, into nitrites, and nitrates. Then you added 3 Zebra Danios, and noticed the cycle initiated. You have been dosing prime since the start up of the tank. At one point, you thoroughly gravel vacuumed, skipped water changes, and just dosed prime. You performed water changes of either 25% or 50%. Then you made a switch from Seachem Stability as your only dosing source, to Seachem stability and Tetra safe start together. All paremeters are tested with an API test kit.
Lets look at what you're dosing and what they are suppose to do. So I had to re-fresh myself on these products, because it has been a long time since I have been involved with them, and I never trusted them. I got all information from their websites.
Seachem prime is advertised as follows:
"Prime also contains a binder which renders ammonia, nitrite, and non-toxic. It is very important to understand how those two functions work together.
The reduction process also breaks the bonds between chlorine and nitrogen atoms in the chloramine molecule, freeing the chlorine atoms and replacing them with hydrogen to create ammonia."
So from my understanding, it does not actually remove Ammonia but creates it. However, it will render ammonia and nitrite non-toxic, and still usable by the beneficial bacteria. The only thing it eliminates is Chloramine, by reduction, and then replaces the chlorine atoms with hydrogen. I think there is a need to better understand that process, just like they have mentioned.
Seachem Stability is advertised as follows:
"Stability is completely harmless to all aquatic organisms as well as aquatic plants, thus there is no danger of over use.
Stability is the culmination of nearly a decade of research and development and represents the current state of the art in natural biological management.
The bacteria used in competing products are inherently unstable. The conditions necessary for their growth and development fall into a very narrow range of temperatures, pH, organic loads, etc.
When any of these parameters are not strictly within the proper range, the bacterial culture quickly crashes and dies. Stability does not contain any of the aforementioned bacteria."
What I've taken from that for myself, is that there is no benefit from combining Seachem Stability with Tetra Safe Start. I did not feel the need to post anything from Tetra Safe Start, because it was mostly generalized, from what I could find. It seems that depending on your parameters, Stability's bacteria could end up out-competing the Tetra Safe Start's bacteria anyhow. This is all hypothetically speaking, of course.
I have found a consumer's comment about Stability that may be useful for you:
"I've been using this product for a while, it's pretty good stuff but you need to take into consideration that the instructions on the bottle are not going to have your tank cycled in 7 days.
The way to use Stability is along with Seachem Prime water conditioner, and water changes. You want to dose both of these daily while you fish-in cycle your aquarium. The formula that I have been doing is as follows.
If you have less than 1 ppm ammonia or nitrite - dose Stability and Prime, wait 24 hours and check again
If you have more than 1 ppm ammonia or nitrite- do atleast 50% water change, sometimes 75% is best depending on how high your ammonia and nitrite is. Then dose Stability and Prime.
The key to cycling your tank and keeping your fish healthy is to keep ammonia and nitrite below 1 ppm, by using Prime Water Conditioner because it will bind these into non toxic forms for 24 hours. This also allows your growing bed of bacteria to have something to eat on.
I am currently cycling a 20 gallon long tank, with one Oranda Goldfish. They are large waste producers, so I normally double my prime dosage and quadruple my stability dosage just to be on the safe side. Amazon by far has the best price for the 500ml bottles!"
Let's do a general overview of how the nitrogen cycle works. Let's leave out all the particulars for now. Bacteria enter our aquariums naturally because they have different tools. Be it facultative, aerobic, or anaerobic. I will explain things in the Saltwater sense, because the cycles do not differ. Saltwater systems take advantage of a Protein SKimmer, because a certain group of bacteria consume these proteins, and the by-product is ammonia. Then of course that's where your cycle starts. You know how the rest goes. Protein skimmers in aquariums, are only condensed and less complicating versions that your local water treatment plant uses to treat your water! Because it eliminates the first source that promotes the growth of multiple harmful pathogens. Nitrates just end up being used by plants or consumed by another bacteria that convert it to nitrogen gas which naturally leaves the water surface.
I do not believe in these products, though I am sure they work. I do not see how the bacteria survive in these bottles for a very extended period of time. You spend a lot of money, and if you are going to do it, it seems you most follow it precisely. Personally, I recommend setting up a take and buying pure ammonia with no additives from the store. Does that to about 4ppm, and let nature do it's job. The bacteria will enter the system naturally, even if it longer. I can see Prime being useful in an emergency situation. You can actually grow a colony ten times larger than your initial stocking, and they adjust accordingly and naturally.
With that being said, I think you may be possibly doing to much. These bacteria live on surfaces, from my understanding. Not the water column. removing water should not effect them significantly unless the areas they inhibit are completely dried out. I think you need to slow down, and regroup. Get in touch with people who use these products, or research them more. I think your cycle is nearly complete. Given the numbers you have given. Ammonia decreasing, nitrate varying, and more than likely nitrates going past what your test can detect. Nitrates are okay, as long as not to high. Regroup, slow down, and figure out what is going on with your products. I think that's where your problem may be. Because everything else makes sense to me. I could be wrong, I am no scientist but I am enrolled in the Microbiology which helps me further understand these processes.
*Edit: I forgot to mention this as well. It is also out of curiosity and I am hoping that someone has an answer! But if Prime does not eliminate ammonia, but makes it non-toxic, then how does that affect test kits? I'm wondering if it gives you a "false reading," when you are expecting the Ammonia level to be zero in the first place.
Your parameters in the morning have tested as:
Ammonia: .25ppm
Nitrite: 1.0 - 2.0ppm
Nitrates: 5 ppm
Tap water ammonia level was .50ppm higher than the tank's, which means we can assume that your actual tap water's ammonia level is .75ppm
So, we know that the cycle is stalled. You started the cycle as fishless while dosing prime and stability, but you initially received no results. Those results you were looking for were the beginning of the breakdown of ammonia, into nitrites, and nitrates. Then you added 3 Zebra Danios, and noticed the cycle initiated. You have been dosing prime since the start up of the tank. At one point, you thoroughly gravel vacuumed, skipped water changes, and just dosed prime. You performed water changes of either 25% or 50%. Then you made a switch from Seachem Stability as your only dosing source, to Seachem stability and Tetra safe start together. All paremeters are tested with an API test kit.
Lets look at what you're dosing and what they are suppose to do. So I had to re-fresh myself on these products, because it has been a long time since I have been involved with them, and I never trusted them. I got all information from their websites.
Seachem prime is advertised as follows:
"Prime also contains a binder which renders ammonia, nitrite, and non-toxic. It is very important to understand how those two functions work together.
The reduction process also breaks the bonds between chlorine and nitrogen atoms in the chloramine molecule, freeing the chlorine atoms and replacing them with hydrogen to create ammonia."
So from my understanding, it does not actually remove Ammonia but creates it. However, it will render ammonia and nitrite non-toxic, and still usable by the beneficial bacteria. The only thing it eliminates is Chloramine, by reduction, and then replaces the chlorine atoms with hydrogen. I think there is a need to better understand that process, just like they have mentioned.
Seachem Stability is advertised as follows:
"Stability is completely harmless to all aquatic organisms as well as aquatic plants, thus there is no danger of over use.
Stability is the culmination of nearly a decade of research and development and represents the current state of the art in natural biological management.
The bacteria used in competing products are inherently unstable. The conditions necessary for their growth and development fall into a very narrow range of temperatures, pH, organic loads, etc.
When any of these parameters are not strictly within the proper range, the bacterial culture quickly crashes and dies. Stability does not contain any of the aforementioned bacteria."
What I've taken from that for myself, is that there is no benefit from combining Seachem Stability with Tetra Safe Start. I did not feel the need to post anything from Tetra Safe Start, because it was mostly generalized, from what I could find. It seems that depending on your parameters, Stability's bacteria could end up out-competing the Tetra Safe Start's bacteria anyhow. This is all hypothetically speaking, of course.
I have found a consumer's comment about Stability that may be useful for you:
"I've been using this product for a while, it's pretty good stuff but you need to take into consideration that the instructions on the bottle are not going to have your tank cycled in 7 days.
The way to use Stability is along with Seachem Prime water conditioner, and water changes. You want to dose both of these daily while you fish-in cycle your aquarium. The formula that I have been doing is as follows.
If you have less than 1 ppm ammonia or nitrite - dose Stability and Prime, wait 24 hours and check again
If you have more than 1 ppm ammonia or nitrite- do atleast 50% water change, sometimes 75% is best depending on how high your ammonia and nitrite is. Then dose Stability and Prime.
The key to cycling your tank and keeping your fish healthy is to keep ammonia and nitrite below 1 ppm, by using Prime Water Conditioner because it will bind these into non toxic forms for 24 hours. This also allows your growing bed of bacteria to have something to eat on.
I am currently cycling a 20 gallon long tank, with one Oranda Goldfish. They are large waste producers, so I normally double my prime dosage and quadruple my stability dosage just to be on the safe side. Amazon by far has the best price for the 500ml bottles!"
Let's do a general overview of how the nitrogen cycle works. Let's leave out all the particulars for now. Bacteria enter our aquariums naturally because they have different tools. Be it facultative, aerobic, or anaerobic. I will explain things in the Saltwater sense, because the cycles do not differ. Saltwater systems take advantage of a Protein SKimmer, because a certain group of bacteria consume these proteins, and the by-product is ammonia. Then of course that's where your cycle starts. You know how the rest goes. Protein skimmers in aquariums, are only condensed and less complicating versions that your local water treatment plant uses to treat your water! Because it eliminates the first source that promotes the growth of multiple harmful pathogens. Nitrates just end up being used by plants or consumed by another bacteria that convert it to nitrogen gas which naturally leaves the water surface.
I do not believe in these products, though I am sure they work. I do not see how the bacteria survive in these bottles for a very extended period of time. You spend a lot of money, and if you are going to do it, it seems you most follow it precisely. Personally, I recommend setting up a take and buying pure ammonia with no additives from the store. Does that to about 4ppm, and let nature do it's job. The bacteria will enter the system naturally, even if it longer. I can see Prime being useful in an emergency situation. You can actually grow a colony ten times larger than your initial stocking, and they adjust accordingly and naturally.
With that being said, I think you may be possibly doing to much. These bacteria live on surfaces, from my understanding. Not the water column. removing water should not effect them significantly unless the areas they inhibit are completely dried out. I think you need to slow down, and regroup. Get in touch with people who use these products, or research them more. I think your cycle is nearly complete. Given the numbers you have given. Ammonia decreasing, nitrate varying, and more than likely nitrates going past what your test can detect. Nitrates are okay, as long as not to high. Regroup, slow down, and figure out what is going on with your products. I think that's where your problem may be. Because everything else makes sense to me. I could be wrong, I am no scientist but I am enrolled in the Microbiology which helps me further understand these processes.
*Edit: I forgot to mention this as well. It is also out of curiosity and I am hoping that someone has an answer! But if Prime does not eliminate ammonia, but makes it non-toxic, then how does that affect test kits? I'm wondering if it gives you a "false reading," when you are expecting the Ammonia level to be zero in the first place.
not to disrespect anything you said, but none of that answered my question lol. I agree 100% that I was probably doing too much and maybe over reacting a bit. I left the tank alone, treated it with prime, 2mls every day, a week later tank has finally cycled. I still believe the .50ppm ammonia reading in my tap water was causing the cycle to drag on a bit. Doing a 25% water changes still adds ammonia to my tank but it is able to eat it up over night so all is good. Never really was much good at patience.
kphilly2017
Aquarium Advice Activist
And not to disrespect your answer, but it sounds like you already had your answer in mind. Haha, without physically being there it could have been a multitude of things. That’s harder to see from my side. I was just trying to go off what was given. So, I thought possibly it could be patience and you seem to agree. So by laying things out to where you could affectively see them, you were able to come to a solution. That’s really all that matters. Glad it worked out for you!
goatnad
Aquarium Advice FINatic
Now the real questions begin.... Why do you have ammonia in your tap water?
kphilly2017
Aquarium Advice Activist
Because it’s a trace element that all tap water has, that the human liver is capable of processing in low amounts over time. It’s not an unnatural occurrence.
King Fisher
Aquarium Advice Addict
When your local water is subpar, the water company will add ammonia to extend the effectiveness of chlorine rather than adding higher concentrations of chlorine.
Correct, hence the original question on using bottled water
kphilly2017
Aquarium Advice Activist
“Chlorine and Chloramine, are extremely harmful to fish and aquatic creatures. I’m a saltwater person, and even I use pure water when mixing my salt. I purchased a RO/DI unit and I recommend them to not only saltwater users, but freshwater users alike. Tap water poses way to many trace elements that can be harmful or promote the growth of nuisance algae. You can find these units for a good price or used all across the internet. If not an option, I would consider at least making sure that you use a dechlorinator or product that will remove harmful minerals from the water. “
Quote from my original reply.
Quote from my original reply.
kphilly2017
Aquarium Advice Activist
kphilly2017
Aquarium Advice Activist
Look I ain’t trying to argue here, but your main question from the original post was what was going with your cycle. Not bottled water? Yes, you did ask if you can use that.
You can use whatever your heart desires. Use rain water, river water, bottled water, or water from your community pool. Doesn’t matter. They all have trace elements due to contamination by humans or water treatment of humans. Bottled water is in plastic. When it heats up it can leach trace elements. You need a way to filter this water. This is coming from a friend of mine who has a BA in Environmental Sciences and is going to UAB to get his masters. It’s a creditable source, versus googling and clicking the first link. The type of water you use it’s gonna make a load of crap so long as it’s not pure H20. That’s the fact of the matter. That Prime your using, is literally breaking down Chloramine and Chlorine into ammonium. Which is ammonia in another form. So what are you asking? If you’re looking for another source of water you need a RO/DI unit or another way to filter your water. Other than that, you seem fine with what you’re doing.
You can use whatever your heart desires. Use rain water, river water, bottled water, or water from your community pool. Doesn’t matter. They all have trace elements due to contamination by humans or water treatment of humans. Bottled water is in plastic. When it heats up it can leach trace elements. You need a way to filter this water. This is coming from a friend of mine who has a BA in Environmental Sciences and is going to UAB to get his masters. It’s a creditable source, versus googling and clicking the first link. The type of water you use it’s gonna make a load of crap so long as it’s not pure H20. That’s the fact of the matter. That Prime your using, is literally breaking down Chloramine and Chlorine into ammonium. Which is ammonia in another form. So what are you asking? If you’re looking for another source of water you need a RO/DI unit or another way to filter your water. Other than that, you seem fine with what you’re doing.
King Fisher
Aquarium Advice Addict
I get annual water reports. Thankfully in my area I have good water considering what a lot of people deal with. I have no ammonia in my tap water and only 2 ppm nitrates.
I agree with what you're saying kphilly. If you live in an area with water issues it's best to get an RO unit. I see no problem with using it exclusively. Knowing what you have coming out of your tap goes a long way to making decisions like these.
I agree with what you're saying kphilly. If you live in an area with water issues it's best to get an RO unit. I see no problem with using it exclusively. Knowing what you have coming out of your tap goes a long way to making decisions like these.
So I will clarify, maybe the entire thing was worded poorly, but then I have no degrees and am not a very good wordsmith. My city gets their water from a river and depending on time of year, ie; spring, the runoff increases turbidity and sediment and whatever else is in the water and they add enough chemicals to it to make it safe that the water actually smells of chlorine at times. Second point, the bottled water I refer to, and wasn't very clear, comes from a refill station at my local grocery store. This water is filled my the consumer into a 5 gallon jug, the water at these stations is RO water and costs $2.80 CAD for 5 gallons. So in a 20 gallon tank where I do a 25% water change weekly, or bi-weekly if needed, a quick trip to the store which is located 2 minutes from my house, I may start doing this just to make sure the water going in is better than my tap water. Only drawback is I have to heat some of it on the stove (heat a pot and add to the rest) to get it same as tank temperature. I assume I wouldn't need to add prime to this or would you do it anyway as a safety precaution? Thanks for all the input from everyone, part of getting into this hobby is it is requiring that I use my brain and makes me think which at my job (personal fitness trainer for last 25 years) isn't exactly brain stimulating anymore. Cheers.
How long has it been stuck like that when you say weeks?
Also have you tested tap water for all readings and what are these (I may have missed nitrates, nitrites reading).
Cycling tanks can take up to two months. Are you dosing ammonia at all or fish in cycle only plus ammonia from tap water?
Also have you tested tap water for all readings and what are these (I may have missed nitrates, nitrites reading).
Cycling tanks can take up to two months. Are you dosing ammonia at all or fish in cycle only plus ammonia from tap water?
Similar threads
