Ammonia Problem

[trerob31]

Hi,So I recently got a Aqueon 13 gallon tank for Christmas,and we have done a lot of our getting started things and shopping at Petco. We elected to start our cycle with fish. We were told originally during the cycle that the water would fog up and clear up a couple of times,it did fog up and clear up once,and we thought once it got clear we were about done with the cycle. Then it fogged up again and really has not cleared up since. Down at Petco they recommended testing our Ammonia to see if that was the problem,sure enough it was. It is in the 1.0-3.0 PPMS range,though it is closer to 3.0 PPMS.

We have since purchased two different chemicals to try to get the problem under control Kordon Amquel Ammonia Detoxifier,and Aqueon Water Clarifier,neither have helped with the situation.

We keep the water temprature at 77 Degrees and feed the fish Tetracolor plus Tropical Flakes.

Fish currently in the Tank:

3 Danio Zebras
3 Platy Bumblebees ( 2 additional babies have been discovered)
Velvet Red Sword
Mollie Balloon
Albino Cory Catfish (bottom feeder)

We did a major water Change Sunday where we also pulled out all the decorations and washed them thoroughly. (we do not use live plants),and this has not had any effect either.

Anyone have any ideas? Our next thought is pulling up the gravel completely on our next water change,but that would start the cycle over too,we have been told.

Another note,we use a Aqueon Quietflow 10 Filter with Medium Sized Cartridges.

 

[robbyno22]

You'll need to get a liquid api master test kit, and check all of your water parameters. You want to keep ammonia and nitrites under .25, so you may have to do several 50% water changes every day until you get your levels down to that safe #. There are great articles on here about fish in cycling.

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[trerob31]

You'll need to get a liquid api master test kit, and check all of your water parameters. You want to keep ammonia and nitrites under .25, so you may have to do several 50% water changes every day until you get your levels down to that safe #. There are great articles on here about fish in cycling.

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Our Nitrites level has been at 1.0

About the water changes,we do them weekly and have had 2 occasions where afterwards we have lost a fish due to stress,causing us to get a replacement,which adds up. So I'm not sure if daily changes would be a great idea or if they would induce stress.

 

[robbyno22]

I had to do 2 50% water changes everyday for 2 weeks on my 13 gallon. I'm not sure that's what killed the fish, to be honest. Even when you are cycled, you will have to do weekly water changes and gravel vacs to keep your water clean. If any fish die in the process, I would either wait to replace them until the tank is cycled, and/or take them back to Petco for a refund. Fish shouldn't die from a water change as long as you are using a good quality water conditioner

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[robbyno22]

Our Nitrites level has been at 1.0

About the water changes,we do them weekly and have had 2 occasions where afterwards we have lost a fish due to stress,causing us to get a replacement,which adds up. So I'm not sure if daily changes would be a great idea or if they would induce stress.

You're fish will be more stressed from high ammonia and nitrite levels. It will also shorten their lifespan

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[robbyno22]

*your

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[trerob31]

I wasn't sure if the number of fish we have in the tank is a concern too or if having babies now is also contributing to the Ammonia.

 

[robbyno22]

If your nitrites are high, then the tank is still cycling. You can use aqadvisor.com as a guide for stocking, but I highly recommend checking out the fish in cycling articles on this site, and getting a liquid test kit. Petco uses strips, which are apparently notorious for being incorrect. Test your water every day, and do water changes to get the ammonia and nitrite levels below .25. Once ammonia and nitrite reach 0, and you have nitrate readings, you will be cycled, and can resume once a week water changes. You don't have to wash your decorations every time, just make sure you do a gravel vac with your water changes. That will keep your ammonia levels in check. Also, whenever you add anything live to your tank, do it slowly. For example, if you add a plant, wait a week or 2 before adding anything else. Add fish 2 or so at a time a couple weeks apart. This will help keep your ammonia from spiking. Also, do not replace your filter cartridges unless they are falling apart, and even then, make sure you have other cycled media in the filter before you replace it. If it needs "washing", only swirl and tap in in the tank water that you've just removed to remove any gunk. Do not rinse in tap water or you will kill all the good bacteria and start this whole process all over again.

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[threnjen]

I agree with most of what has been recommended here.

Get a liquid API Master Freshwater Test Kit ($20 on Amazon)
Read this: I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?! - Aquarium Advice
Your fish are weakened from the high levels and not surprised that they are dying.

Unfortunately you have far too many fish in your tank and are very overstocked. This compounded with the fact that you are not cycled is leading to your high death rate. I'm very sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Please do not replace any more fish and I would encourage you to return several of the fish that you have. Mollies, Swords, Danios are too big for this tank. Most people will frown at the platies as well.

We would love to help you cycle and pick out more suitable fish for your tank size

 

[trerob31]

I think I should clarify. The only deaths I have had came quickly after water changes,and only to two fish had this happened.

I took a sample of water down to another store that is a all aquarium store and had them run a test on it using a liquid testing kit,and it came back with next to nothing levels of Nitrite and ammonia levels. The complete opposite of what I was getting with the test strips.

 

[threnjen]

You really want to invest in your own test kit so that you don't keep having to take the water to a store. Doing a fish-in cycle this is probably one of the most important pieces of equipment you can own.

I stand by everything else I said too

 

[trerob31]

Yeah I'm probably going to get a test kit here shortly.

As far as the fish are concerned,the thing is that anytime we have added a new fish we have specifically asked them at Petco "is it ok to go ahead and add this fish now?" And they always came back saying yeah it is,and they are fully aware it's a 13 gallon tank too. The Danios I'm a little surprised to see you say are too big since Petco specifically recommended them to me for my first 3 fish I ever put in the tank,so they could get the cycle started.

I should also note that since the water has been cloudy really the fish we have in there now have had no problems with it. The only 2 deaths happened after water changes,which to me were stress related deaths. I don't have fish dropping dead from the cloudy water at all.

 

[tnfinfan]

I think I should clarify. The only deaths I have had came quickly after water changes,and only to two fish had this happened.

I took a sample of water down to another store that is a all aquarium store and had them run a test on it using a liquid testing kit,and it came back with next to nothing levels of Nitrite and ammonia levels. The complete opposite of what I was getting with the test strips.

If you collect water after a water change, that affects the results. If you use a water conditioner that detoxifies ammonia, your fish will do OK temporarily in water with excessive ammonia. But beating back toxins with water additives is not ideal. Fish-in cycling requires close attention to water parameters and frequent water changes or fish die. That's just how it goes. It's also normally done with very few fish in the tank so that the levels of toxins don't climb too fast to manage with water changes. I can assure you that the deaths are not from getting cleaner water. The only ways that water changes could cause problems is if 1) you don't use water conditioner so you're introducing chlorine/chloramine or 2) you use water that's not approximately the same temp/pH and you shock the fish or 3) you stir up a bunch of waste from the bottom and cause an ammonia spike.

 

[tnfinfan]

Yeah I'm probably going to get a test kit here shortly.

As far as the fish are concerned,the thing is that anytime we have added a new fish we have specifically asked them at Petco "is it ok to go ahead and add this fish now?" And they always came back saying yeah it is,and they are fully aware it's a 13 gallon tank too. The Danios I'm a little surprised to see you say are too big since Petco specifically recommended them to me for my first 3 fish I ever put in the tank,so they could get the cycle started.

I should also note that since the water has been cloudy really the fish we have in there now have had no problems with it. The only 2 deaths happened after water changes,which to me were stress related deaths. I don't have fish dropping dead from the cloudy water at all.

The person at the fish shop sells fish. If you ask whether you can buy more fish, they are likely to say yes. That doesn't make it a good idea. They are not experts. Heck, they might never have had a tank! That's not a requirement to work there, you know. So, trust the people who have fish and who have done the research properly. Threnjen is no amateur.

 

[robbyno22]

I have the same tank. The people at Petco told me that I could put 5 neon tetras, 2 African dwarf frogs, and 1 mystery snail in the tank 2 days after I set it up. Needless to say, my betta (who we had for abt 9 mos) died within a few days, and the frogs within a few weeks. The advice they gave was not accurate. In fact, we have 3 petcos in my area, and all 3 have given different advice, not to mention different advice from different employees in the same store! Refer to aqadvisor.com as a guide to stocking, and check in here to ask stocking questions, plus do research on each fish. Most people here found this site because of bad information they were given by a pet shop employee.

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[robbyno22]

Oops, they also said to put my betta in

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[threnjen]

Well to put it politely. .. with a few exceptions (such as an active forum member who is an employee), we don't much respect the advice given by Petco/petsmart around here. To put it impolitely, they are usually the butts of the joke.
Remember that is a basic retail establishment offering basic retail pay and selling a wide range of animals and products. The people there are usually not experts at anything.
I see people complain a lot about their poor training, but it doesn't surprise me. Companies only invest so much time for training and it's not like they are going to spend their unpaid time to learn more.

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[trerob31]

This is hence why we took a water sample down to this other store that deals in all aquariums,fish,and aquarium accessories and products,for a second opinion on what might be going on.

robbyno22,that was interesting you mentioning your betta,because I recall the folks at my local Petco saying that bettas are more solitary creatures,and don't really go in a tank with other aquatic life.

 

[AtHomeWithTwins]

I have the same tank from petco.. They had a great black friday deal on it. I had trouble getting it to cycle as well and what seemed to make the biggest difference was adding a second filter. I got a duplicate aqueon power flow 10, cut another hole in the tank cover, and stuffed it with poly fill and biomax instead of the included cartridge. This filter has very limited room inside, so the more media you can get in it the better. A second filter quickly allowed the cycle to complete and keeps levels nice and stable. Prices on amazon cant be beat for the filter and test kit. Also, see if you can find a low light fast growing plant like water sprite. You can just toss it in the tank and let it float and it'll grow quickly and use up alot of the things that are toxic to the fish.

 

[threnjen]

Bettas can be amazing community tank fish. You just have to be pickier about their tankmates because they don't like other fish that are flowy/finny.

Bettas, gourami, angels and rams are the most common "centerpiece fish" that people consider for a community tank