Brookster123
Aquarium Advice Addict
Good read! No fishy Facebook in my tanks
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Appropriate size for freshwater shoals
- Thread starter dalto
- Start date
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Fishobsessed7
Aquarium Advice Addict
Wy Renegade
Aquarium Advice Addict
Interesting read, kinda puts a different light on things doesn't it?
One of my favorite things that I run into in the hobby is all the people who talk about how their fish are "happy" in this or that situation. In fact I caught a few of my students doing that this semester as well. My question to them was, how do you measure happiness in a fish? I've yet to have a fish tell me that it is happy, content, sad, or otherwise in any given situation and I've been doing this for a long time.
One of my favorite things that I run into in the hobby is all the people who talk about how their fish are "happy" in this or that situation. In fact I caught a few of my students doing that this semester as well. My question to them was, how do you measure happiness in a fish? I've yet to have a fish tell me that it is happy, content, sad, or otherwise in any given situation and I've been doing this for a long time.
Brookster123
Aquarium Advice Addict
Right?! I'm not an aquatic clairvoyant by any means but I'd like to think that a fish that let's it's guard down and breaks from the ranks would be as close to "happy" as possible. The bit on corys constanlty foraging and bopping around made alot of sense too, when i kept a smaller grouo theyd spend much more time under cover.
- its not cowering in the sponge Bob pineapple so it's like soooo happyyyy
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PNWaquarist
Aquarium Advice Addict
"Not visibly stressed" would be a more accurate way to state that.
aqua_holic
Aquarium Advice FINatic
A school is a group of fish traveling together and a shoal is a group of fish just hanging out. Fish both school and shoal - it's not one or the other. It's just a description of their behavior at any given moment.
That is a little bit different then my understanding.
Everything I had read was basically that a shoal was a group of fish that swim together. A school on the other hand swims together in a tight pattern in a highly synchronized manner. I do not believe there are any freshwater fish that are schooling fish.
http://www.aquaticstory.com/our-articles/general-topics/difference-between-shoaling-schooling
trennamw
Aquarium Advice Addict
I thought danios school?
My own experience is that it isn't just how many of which fish, but what else is in the tank. Fish and decor wise. And around the tank.
Some random things from my 29 ...
I started with 6 each harlequin rasboras and glowlight tetras. For the week they were alone in the tank, they spent a lot of time together, swimming tightly with each other, often taking turns together and other things school-like. Sometimes one or two of either species would go off on their own, but the two groups didn't tend to separate.
Their behavior did change depending on whether the power head was going. They stuck together more when it was. So I wonder if some if it is like flocks of birds or groups of cyclists sticking together.
I think I got 6 kyathit danio next. Zebras, basically, with orange fins. It was like introducing a pack of teenagers on skateboards. They zoomed around the tank very closely together. For the first several days, the harlequins tried to follow them and started doing things like swimming at the power head and getting blown around. The danios taught the harlequins to be daring, I guess. And the glowlight tetras got more shy, stayed together away from everyone else.
Then I increased the harlequins to 10, and each group of fish started staying with its own more. The 10 almost never stay together in ine group, they are usually in two groups of 4 and 6.
I brought in 4 of a Pygmy loach, which are about the size of the glowlight tetras. They stick together at feeding time, swim with the glowlight tetras if I change the direction of the power head, and spend a lot of time cruising independently.
And there were 4 Otos which went down to 3 very quickly (never underestimate the desire of tiny creatures with tiny brains to stick their tiny heads in tiny places). They were out all the time, usually apart.
Then I moved, the tank went from a dark room with little traffic to one with more light and traffic. And I changed the decor, from a large driftwood in the center to rocks on one side, making a very sheltered corner and a very open corner.
Now I never see the Otos, even though the group has gone up to 8. They're always together in the dark sheltered back corner. The glowlight tetras rarely stay together, they're more shy too now. Adding plants hasn't kept either from being shy.
Long story short, I think it depends on a lot more than the size of the shoal and the tank.
Sent from my iPhone with three hands tied behind my back.
My own experience is that it isn't just how many of which fish, but what else is in the tank. Fish and decor wise. And around the tank.
Some random things from my 29 ...
I started with 6 each harlequin rasboras and glowlight tetras. For the week they were alone in the tank, they spent a lot of time together, swimming tightly with each other, often taking turns together and other things school-like. Sometimes one or two of either species would go off on their own, but the two groups didn't tend to separate.
Their behavior did change depending on whether the power head was going. They stuck together more when it was. So I wonder if some if it is like flocks of birds or groups of cyclists sticking together.
I think I got 6 kyathit danio next. Zebras, basically, with orange fins. It was like introducing a pack of teenagers on skateboards. They zoomed around the tank very closely together. For the first several days, the harlequins tried to follow them and started doing things like swimming at the power head and getting blown around. The danios taught the harlequins to be daring, I guess. And the glowlight tetras got more shy, stayed together away from everyone else.
Then I increased the harlequins to 10, and each group of fish started staying with its own more. The 10 almost never stay together in ine group, they are usually in two groups of 4 and 6.
I brought in 4 of a Pygmy loach, which are about the size of the glowlight tetras. They stick together at feeding time, swim with the glowlight tetras if I change the direction of the power head, and spend a lot of time cruising independently.
And there were 4 Otos which went down to 3 very quickly (never underestimate the desire of tiny creatures with tiny brains to stick their tiny heads in tiny places). They were out all the time, usually apart.
Then I moved, the tank went from a dark room with little traffic to one with more light and traffic. And I changed the decor, from a large driftwood in the center to rocks on one side, making a very sheltered corner and a very open corner.
Now I never see the Otos, even though the group has gone up to 8. They're always together in the dark sheltered back corner. The glowlight tetras rarely stay together, they're more shy too now. Adding plants hasn't kept either from being shy.
Long story short, I think it depends on a lot more than the size of the shoal and the tank.
Sent from my iPhone with three hands tied behind my back.
trennamw
Aquarium Advice Addict
Right?! I'm not an aquatic clairvoyant by any means but I'd like to think that a fish that let's it's guard down and breaks from the ranks would be as close to "happy" as possible. The bit on corys constanlty foraging and bopping around made alot of sense too, when i kept a smaller grouo theyd spend much more time under cover.
- its not cowering in the sponge Bob pineapple so it's like soooo happyyyy
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Aquarium Advice mobile app
The two times I've had a fish consistently swim far from its group, it ended up dying a few months later.
Sent from my iPhone with three hands tied behind my back.
aqua_holic
Aquarium Advice FINatic
I think it's unrealistic to expect fish to school in the small tanks and small groups "we" keep them in.
Yes I read that persons very brief synopsis of their view of the difference between schooling and shoaling, though honestly I didn't find it very informative.
Yes I read that persons very brief synopsis of their view of the difference between schooling and shoaling, though honestly I didn't find it very informative.
Brookster123
Aquarium Advice Addict
Not really what I meant, for instance.. my 8 rummynose tetras will spend 50% of the time maneuvering the tank in somewhat of a school, they'll pick a spot, usually by the Ludwiga leaves and kind of spread out a bit, some will swim in place, others will move about the group checking in with the others if that makes sense.
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aqua_holic
Aquarium Advice FINatic
Sounds to me like they are both schooling and shoaling. That's what my silver dollars do - they school from one side of the tank to the other, then they shoal for little then school back to the other side of the tank.
jetajockey
come get me tang police!
I use both terms rather loosely but I think technically a shoaling fish is one that is social with others of the same or similar species, hanging in the same general area, but moving independently. A school is when the fish all act in unison, in an organized manner. That's my take on it anyway.
As dalto mentioned, not sure if any FW fish truly do this, as I've never seen them do it for certain, but I have seen many SW bait fish do it.
As dalto mentioned, not sure if any FW fish truly do this, as I've never seen them do it for certain, but I have seen many SW bait fish do it.
aqua_holic
Aquarium Advice FINatic
Exactly, it's just a description of their current behavior. Groups of fish transition between schooling and shoaling.
I've seen freshwater baitfish school the same way SW baitfish do.
trennamw
Aquarium Advice Addict
Right. I was just laying out what I've seen in my very limited experience. Which includes ... The few times a fish has behaved abnormally, never joining its group, it didn't last.
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aqua_holic
Aquarium Advice FINatic
That's been my experience with many types of fish - they either separate themselves from the school or are ejected from the school. Such fish are on their way out at that point. This is markedly different than fish acting independent of the school, which is a normal occurrence.
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