Are aquarium diseases curable????

[QTOFFER]

I know the best way to treat fish disease is to try to avoid it in the first place! An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure...

So, suppose you do everything right for your fish - cycle the tank, provide a safe aquatic environment free of physical or chemical dangers, provide suitable substrate and hiding places, only mix compatible species, drip acclimate and quarrantine new acquisitions for a month, do weekly water changes and closely monitor water params, maintain filter and heater and check daily for proper operation, feed a varied, high quality diet.......and they still come down with something?

The only aquarium diseases I have had success treating are ich and finrot.
On the other hand, I have had no success whatsoever treating dropsy, columnaris, hemorrhagic septicemia, or swim bladder disease. All of my fish afflicted with these diseases finally succumbed after a long, often expensive course of antiotics. I have tried nearly every antibiotic on the market - Jungle fungus cure, EM, triple sulfa, kanacyn, bettamax, tetrocycline, spectrogram, and MelaFix.

The next time I have a fish with a bad case of anything that is not ich or finrot, I think I'll just euthanize. In my experience, the meds don't work, they're expensive, the fish just lingers and probably suffers, and I risk cross contaminating all my tanks while I'm doing treatment.

Is this a rash course of action that I'm considering?
Has anyone beeen able to beat bacterial infections long term?

 

[BrianNY]

Interesting question QTOFFER. A lot has to do with the species, how early you catch it, and whether your diagnosis is correct.

But the answer is yes. I've succesfully treated for Hex, Gill Flukes, and the dreaded discus plague. Mind you, I've also lost fish that I was treating.

HTH

 

[docrak]

I know Neon Tetra Disease is not. I also know ammonia poisoning is permanent. I kind of agree with you. Separate the sick fish right away and euthanise. Especially if the fish is only worth a couple of dollars and the meds are worth a ton of money. I think the only fish I would try and treat are my exotic plecos. But even then, they usually end up dieing before I can do anything about it. I try and avoid exposing my fish to chemicals not found in the wild and I try not to use meds if I can avoid it. A lot of the time the meds can stress an already week fish and only end up killing it.

 

[savga]

I have successfully treated columnaris (with Melafix and Pimafix believe it or not) and I have a couple of danios with slighly deformed mouths to prove it. That is a nasty disease but I haven't seen it since my tank fully cycled. I have tried to treat mysterious illness in some rams with antibiotics, but they died anyway. One died AFTER the full week of antibiotics. I agree that trying to treat sick fish can be very frustrating and expensive.

 

[grimlock3000]

I have beat down Ich, mytery internal parasites, Anchorworms, Columnaris, and fin rot. Ich and fin rot are relatively easy to deal with.

Ich is easy if you just take the right steps and catch it early.

Fin rot is almost always a water quality problem, so water changes can fix that.

Anchorworms were a nightmare. I had a fish swimming around with long parasites coming out of them. Only lost one fish, but it is horrible to watch. I medicated the anchorworms to death, only lost one fish.

I had a strain of Columnaris that kept coming back. It killed almost every fish in my 10g tank over time. Nothing I did seemed to help. It would get one fish, I would treat the tank, the fish would die anyway, then the next month it happened again. If I went back in time, I probably would have euthanized the first fish that had it.

Internal parasites are hard. You never know if you "win". I feed my fish Pepso Food once a week or so as a preventitve. The internal parasites in my 26g SHOULD be gone, but sometimes you never know

Yesterday I euthanized one Cherry Barb. The Barb first turned into a pine cone, then started wasting away. It looked like a little skeleton with scales and fins, but was still swimming around and doing fine, but something was blatantly wrong. I am going on vacation soon and I can not risk having that fish get the rest of my tank sick, so I had to kill it

I have a Neon in my 10g that is showing possible NTD. That fish might go to the big fish tank in the sky if it does not look better before I leave for vacation.

 

[Madame_X]

The only aquarium diseases I have had success treating are ich and finrot. On the other hand, I have had no success whatsoever treating dropsy, columnaris, hemorrhagic septicemia, or swim bladder disease. All of my fish afflicted with these diseases finally succumbed after a long, often expensive course of antiotics. I have tried nearly every antibiotic on the market - Jungle fungus cure, EM, triple sulfa, kanacyn, bettamax, tetrocycline, spectrogram, and MelaFix.

I feel your pain. I just went through this with one of my rams. I had him in a hospital tank for over two weeks, and put him through a full course of Maracyn, Maracyn2 (concurrently) and Kanycin (not concurrently), as well as efforts with aquarium salt and nearly an entire 16 oz. bottle of Melafix. I'm sure I spent $30 or more on medications.

After 15 days, he started swimming toward the top of the tank trying to breathe from the surface. It was clear that there was too much damage to his gills and he was no longer able to get enough oxygen. I ended up euthanizing him with clove oil.

The next time I have a fish with a bad case of anything that is not ich or finrot, I think I'll just euthanize. In my experience, the meds don't work, they're expensive, the fish just lingers and probably suffers, and I risk cross contaminating all my tanks while I'm doing treatment.

I was thinking the same thing myself. I'll have to see if I go through with it, especially if it turns out to be another one of my favorite fish.

Is this a rash course of action that I'm considering?
Has anyone beeen able to beat bacterial infections long term?

No, its not rash. I'm thinking the same thing.

Although I know others have successfully treated these illnesses, I'm wondering what the percentages really are. My poor little fish was obviously suffering for several days. I just kept thinking the meds would kick in and he would recover. Now I feel guilty for putting him through it.

I successfully treated my first pair of rams for camallanus (intestinal worms). Aside from that, I've never had any luck with antibiotics (other than to kill off a cyano outbreak). Knock on wood, I've never had to deal with ich (I believe my warm water may have something to do with it).

I'm curious to see what others have to say on the subject...

 

[hashbaz]

I agree with Madame_X. It seems harsh to euthanize sick fish but really has advantages: 1. Most of the time - when a fish looks "bad" - he is going die soon. Why not end the suffering a little sooner. 2. It's not worth risking more fish getting sick. 3. This one might be a little heartless but often a new fish is cheaper than the meds.

I've only successfully treated ich and one fungus but caught it before the fish started looking bad. I've never seen a fish that looked "bad" recover. Great topic! - I've been curious of other's opinions

 

[shawmutt]

Just ich here too.

Just an FYI, I wouldn't recommend using the alcohol method of euthanasia, it's not as quick and painless as some websites would lead you to believe. I hope I never have to do it again, but if I do I'm going to try the clove oil/freezing method.

 

[Madame_X]

I hope I never have to do it again, but if I do I'm going to try the clove oil/freezing method.

Shawmutt, that's what I use. They don't seem to feel any pain (the clove oil is just an anesthetic). It really doesn't take much, either. I usually put the fish in a small disposeable container (those Ziploc containers is usually what I use). I put about half a teaspoon of clove oil in a small cup with about a teaspoon of water and shake it up very well. This makes it mix with the water in the container easily. Then I pour it into the container and as they swim into the mixture, they just sorta flip over on their side and go to sleep. Then I put them in the freezer for a few hours until I'm sure they're gone.

I tried mixing it with alcohol once as I heard you were supposed to do that to cut the oil, allowing it to mix with the water. Well, when I did that the fish thrashed around for a few seconds so I knew it was in pain. I won't ever do that again. The clove oil mixes just fine with the water if you shake it up with a little water before putting it in anyway.

For the record, after they're completely frozen, I've been throwing the entire container (frozen fishy and all) in the garbage. I'm concerned with spreading some kind of disease to the fish in the reservoir by flushing a sick fish down the toilet.

Any thoughts on that?

 

[QTOFFER]

When I first got into the hobby in November, 2003, I started a fish journal to keep track of my water parameters, new acquisitions, disease treatments, and fish deaths. Just goes to show how deeply the PhD training has permeated into my life outside the lab.

Anyway, here's what I've lost since November and why:

5 zebra danios: Lost during initial tank cycle. I was a newbie. What? Fishless cycling? Huh?
9 serpae tetras: beat ich, beat finrot, lost to columnaris
5 black phantom tetras: beat ich, beat finrot, lost to columnaris
4 zebra danio: hemorrhagic septicemia
2 corys: cause unknown
1 zebra danio: dropsy, popeye
3 otos: cause unknown, probably starved prior to purchase
1 green severum: beat ich, lost to swimbladder disorder during quarrantine
1 firemouth: cause unknown during quarrantine
2 ropefish: beat ich during quarrantine, lost to unknown cause, possibly starvation due to bad lfs advice
1 albino ancistrus: MIA, cause unknown - the other is doing well and growing, Brian!
1 betta: dropsy

 

[cheezysquirrelz]

I had a dwarf blue gourami that got dropsy. I put it in my 5gal with $10 meds and it died the next day.
Two questions:
-What is Neon tetra disease?
-What is clove oil and where do you get it?

 

[grimlock3000]

After posting earlier in the day that one Neon had "possible NTD", I looked into it all afternoon. My Neon was a textbook example of Neon Tetra Disese. After seeing multiple places say, "no cure", I euthanized the fish tonight before anything else got sick. Two fish in two nights, doh

I used to do EVERYTHING possible to save any fish. In the end, I think all I did was prolong a death and cause more fish to get sick. I have a bunch of fish that have survived multiple full tank medicationsand I always wonder if I caused permanment damage to them in the past with medicines.

Time will tell how my current strategy works out. I never thought I would kill two fish in a row on purpose, but I strongly feel neither fish was going to live through the next week.

 

[TankGirl]

This is a fascinating subject, and I'm glad you brought it up, QTOFFER.

I have successfully treated fin rot, ich and popeye. Otherwise no success, but I have not had much disease to be treated otherwise. I had a betta that died of bloat, but that was before I knew about this relatively common situation that can be dealt with using peas.

I have had the same fish for so long now and haven't had problems for almost a year until recently when my lone adult male angel has come down with what appears to be some kind of eye disease, but is not popeye. I suspect my dwarf gourami, with whom he spars regularly, is responsible, and this is related to injury, but I have tried everything and the eyes actually seem to be wasting away. He can't eat now because he can't see the food, so I am really going to have to do something, tho it kills me. Melafix and antibiotics have had no effect, neither did methylene blue (out of desperation).

The main tank he was in gets twice-weekly water changes and tons of attention, and my water quality is very stable in that tank, so even in the best of circumstances things can go wrong - maybe genetics?

 

[Madame_X]

Two questions:
-What is Neon tetra disease?
-What is clove oil and where do you get it?

http://www.fishprofiles.com/interactive/disease/ntd.asp

Perhaps others can elaborate further.

Clove oil is just what it sounds like--a natural oil derived from cloves (yes, the spice). It acts as a natural anesthetic for fish when mixed with water and can be used in times when you need to handle the fish (i.e. trimming a puffer's beak). By all accounts, it puts the fish to sleep painlessly. You can then terminate their life by freezing or some other means (which I won't get into...). 8O

You can buy it at most health food stores. I bought mine at HiHealth locally.

 

[TankGirl]

I am definitely in favor of the clove oil method - I have not had to try it yet, but since I am now facing this issue I will go that route. I've tried almost every other way, and it almost always ends poorly - I hate it!

 

[docrak]

Anybody try the CO2 method? usual carbonated soda will work. apparently it contains so much CO2 and so little O2 that the fish suffocate very quickly. I've never tried soda alone, I usually add some dry ice from work. Death is almost instantaneous.

 

[cheezysquirrelz]

That would be awful to suffocate

 

[grimlock3000]

I put a cup of water in the freezer until it is at the freezing point and starting to ice over. Then I just drop the fish right in to. Seems to be almost instant. I freeze the cup until the whole thing is solid and discard the fish in the ice block. For this method, make sure the water in the cup is as cold as possible!

I just came across some clove oil, so any future freezing attempts will be made with the help of the clove oil.

 

[Madame_X]

I just came across some clove oil, so any future freezing attempts will be made with the help of the clove oil.

Yeah, I just have to think that the clove oil is the most humane way to do it. I wouldn't even put them in freezing water with the clove oil--I use tank water so they're as comfortable as possible, then freeze once they're asleep.

They always are in exactly the same place once they're frozen solid so I don't think they're waking up and experiencing any pain.

Tankgirl--sorry about your angel. It was tough to put my ram down so I definitely can relate, but it was the right thing to do.

 

[TankGirl]

This is the biggest fish I have had to euthanize - it is somehow easier for me when they are small.

To get back on topic, I have heard of people treating dropsy and TB successfully, but I don't know if that was true or if the fish did not actually have the disease they thought they were treating.

Is there a reliable on-line source for disease diagnosis? I cruise around and pick up bits and pieces here and there about certain diseases, and Pandora has a pretty good chart with pics of diseases, but where does everyone go to get info when they have a fish that is sick with something they are not familiar with?