Are my fish gasping for air?

[treym563]

My cycle took a setback right before my fish were shipped to me so I had no choice but to put them in my tank. I have .25-.5ppm nitrIte and I'm wondering if my fish are just going for the bubbles cause they are hungry or if they are gasping for air? it seems to only be my Acei that are doing it.

YouTube - ‪SAM_0984.AVI‬‏

thanks in advance for any feedback!

 

[Mr. Limpet]

Their gills are getting burned from the ammo. A 50% PWC is needed ASAP. If you use prime to cure your tap water, double the dose for the total volume of the tank and it will make the ammo safer for the fish and bacteria can still use it.

 

[WendiDell]

My cycle took a setback right before my fish were shipped to me so I had no choice but to put them in my tank. I have .25-.5ppm nitrIte and I'm wondering if my fish are just going for the bubbles cause they are hungry or if they are gasping for air? it seems to only be my Acei that are doing it.

YouTube - ‪SAM_0984.AVI‬‏

thanks in advance for any feedback!

It's not just the ammonia that's causing a problem. The nitrItes are to high too. Whenever you do a fish in cycle the ammonia & the nitrItes should never be above .25ppm. For the fish zero is best but you need trace amounts of both, trace being less than .25ppm, in order to feed the nitrAtes that you do want.
The fish in cycle takes much longer than the fishless cycle. Unless you have either cycled filter media or gravel with a lot of nitrAtes. If you have this kind of seed material you can cycle your tank very quickly.
Some people get their seed gravel from their LFS. My only issue with that is you don't know how healthy it is. It may carry unwanted diseases.
I simply grow my own seed material in a 5g bucket with a filter and a heater. I have gravel in a nylon mesh bag and extra filter parts in the bucket with nitrAtes of 160ppm. So when I add them to a tank being cycled the nitrAtes spread very quickly.

 

[treym563]

I just did water tests and my ammo came up as 0, nitrIte .25, nitrAte 20 (I don't trust the nitrAte cause whenever I have nitrItes it throws the nitrAte reading off). The fish don't flare their gills at all it almost looks like they are just trying to eat the bubbles, they do it when they aren't at the surface too. It's only the Acei doing this, the other fish are just chilling lower and in the rocks. When I put the tubes in to get the water for testing all the Acei rushed to the surface so I'm starting to think they are just really hungry. I'm holding off on feeding since I had a little setback on my cycle I don't want to add anything else to the water. I've done multiple WC today do you still think I should do another?

 

[jetajockey]

So when I add them to a tank being cycled the nitrAtes spread very quickly.

The nitrates are the end result of the nitrogen cycle. The nitrifying bacteria is what you want to spread, not the nitrates themselves.


I do agree that the OP should reduce the nitrite level in the tank, but those fish don't look like they are suffering ammonia burns or ammonia poisoning.

 

[Mr. Limpet]

Good catch Wendi!

I was thinking ammo, but he did say no2. Still do a 50% PWC and a 2x does of Prime will still help cut no2.

 

[treym563]

It's not just the ammonia that's causing a problem. The nitrItes are to high too. Whenever you do a fish in cycle the ammonia & the nitrItes should never be above .25ppm. For the fish zero is best but you need trace amounts of both, trace being less than .25ppm, in order to feed the nitrAtes that you do want.
The fish in cycle takes much longer than the fishless cycle. Unless you have either cycled filter media or gravel with a lot of nitrAtes. If you have this kind of seed material you can cycle your tank very quickly.
Some people get their seed gravel from their LFS. My only issue with that is you don't know how healthy it is. It may carry unwanted diseases.
I simply grow my own seed material in a 5g bucket with a filter and a heater. I have gravel in a nylon mesh bag and extra filter parts in the bucket with nitrAtes of 160ppm. So when I add them to a tank being cycled the nitrAtes spread very quickly.

My tank has been fishless cycling for over a month. I got filter media and a biowheel off an established tank and over the last couple weeks my ammonia has dropped from 4+ppm to 0 in under 12 hours. My nitrItes spiked and then over the last weekend they went to 0 for 3 days straight so I ordered my fish. Last night I did a large WC and after that I started getting nitrItes again so I think the large WC threw off my cycle a little bit, but I had no choice since my fish were already shipped. So far today I did a 40% WC before I put the fish in, added the amount of PRIME the label said to detoxify nitrIte, and later on in the day did another 20% WC. Should I keep messing with it and doing more WC or let it be?

 

[Mr. Limpet]

My tank has been fishless cycling for over a month. I got filter media and a biowheel off an established tank and over the last couple weeks my ammonia has dropped from 4+ppm to 0 in under 12 hours. My nitrItes spiked and then over the last weekend they went to 0 for 3 days straight so I ordered my fish. Last night I did a large WC and after that I started getting nitrItes again so I think the large WC threw off my cycle a little bit, but I had no choice since my fish were already shipped. So far today I did a 40% WC before I put the fish in, added the amount of PRIME the label said to detoxify nitrIte, and later on in the day did another 20% WC. Should I keep messing with it and doing more WC or let it be?

I'd do another PWC of 50%, with at least a double dose of Prime. You can do a 5X dose on occasion, so if you only did 2 drops per gallon, I'd suggest a 5x dose this time. IMO you need to get the no2 down to 0ppm.

 

[jetajockey]

It's not an emergency situation, you don't need to do a 5x overdose. A regular dosage is supposed to remove approx 1mg/l ammonia, so assuming that carries over to nitrite as well, that's more than enough.

 

[Mr. Limpet]

It's not an emergency situation, you don't need to do a 5x overdose. A regular dosage is supposed to remove approx 1mg/l ammonia, so assuming that carries over to nitrite as well, that's more than enough.

I'd consider fish gasping from no2 poisoning an emergency.

Fish Disease - Nitrite Poisoning

You assume wrong, since it doesn't carry over from ammo to no2.

"To detoxify nitrite in an emergency, up to 5 times normal dose may be used."

 

[jetajockey]

I'd consider fish gasping from no2 poisoning an emergency.

Fish Disease - Nitrite Poisoning

Did you happen to read the link that you posted?

None of the symptoms are noticeable in that video

Fish gasp for breath at the water surface
Fish hang near water outlets
Fish is listless
Tan or brown gills
Rapid gill movement



Maybe a video with a closer up look at the fish would reveal visual symptoms of poisoning, but those fish didn't seem to be listless at all, or breathing heavily.

You assume wrong, since it doesn't carry over from ammo to no2.

"To detoxify nitrite in an emergency, up to 5 times normal dose may be used."

Okay, tell me then how much nitrite Prime detoxifies in a regular dosage? It seems like even the seachem techs can't give an exact answer to that one.

I know what the Seachem site says about overdosing Prime, but a .50 nitrite reading (before water change) is far from an emergency. Although I guess that would be a matter of opinion.

Another point that could brought up is the toxicity level of nitrite in basic water. The hard water generally found in an african setup helps ensure a low level of nitrite toxicity, as no2- is far less toxic than hno2.


If anyone cares to get their learn on, reference Chen, J.C., Cheng, S.Y., 1999. Recovery of Penaeus monodon from functional anaemia after exposure to sublethal concentration of nitrite at different pH levels. Aquatic Toxicol. 50, 73-83

 

[treym563]

Ok did a decent sized water change, not sure the exact % since I have so much rock in my tank, would guess around 50%. NitrItes now appear to be close to 0.

 

[WendiDell]

I have a couple questions. What are you using to test with? Your results seem just a little erratic. If your using the API Master Test Kit, what is the expiration date?
I agree with Mr. Limpet, nitrItes are dangerous. More so than ammonia and for the sake of the gasping fish, the nitrItes need to be brought down, quickly.
A PWC with some extra Prime is the safest way to get there.

 

[Mr. Limpet]

Ok did a decent sized water change, not sure the exact % since I have so much rock in my tank, would guess around 50%. NitrItes now appear to be close to 0.

Good to hear!

No2 at 0ppm will mean your fish should stop gasping like they were. I'd keep a close eye on it, and be ready to do another PWC if the no2 (or ammo) climbs.

Jet: The video link doesn't show up on the app, but since the thread title and discription is synonymous with the symptoms no2 poisoning, I didn't really need to see it .

 

[treym563]

I have a couple questions. What are you using to test with? Your results seem just a little erratic. If your using the API Master Test Kit, what is the expiration date?
I agree with Mr. Limpet, nitrItes are dangerous. More so than ammonia and for the sake of the gasping fish, the nitrItes need to be brought down, quickly.
A PWC with some extra Prime is the safest way to get there.

I thought the same thing, that my kit was possibly expired, but I looked up online and according to the Lot # on my bottle the kit is still good for 4-5 more years. My ammonia has stayed at 0 since I stopped manually adding it but my nitrItes and nitrAtes have been fluctuating a lot. Someone pointed out to me that the API test kit doesn't give an accurate reading for nitrAtes if there are any nitrItes present, and that's exactly what I have experienced. My nitrItes have been fluctuating a lot but I think I have it under control now. I'll update more in the morning and test the water then. thanks!

 

[WendiDell]

I thought the same thing, that my kit was possibly expired, but I looked up online and according to the Lot # on my bottle the kit is still good for 4-5 more years. My ammonia has stayed at 0 since I stopped manually adding it but my nitrItes and nitrAtes have been fluctuating a lot. Someone pointed out to me that the API test kit doesn't give an accurate reading for nitrAtes if there are any nitrItes present, and that's exactly what I have experienced. My nitrItes have been fluctuating a lot but I think I have it under control now. I'll update more in the morning and test the water then. thanks!

Sounds like a plan. Type at you tomorrow.

 

[jetajockey]

Jet: The video link doesn't show up on the app, but since the thread title and discription is synonymous with the symptoms no2 poisoning, I didn't really need to see it .

I've seen my share of nitrite poisoned fish, and it just doesn't look like it from what little bit of that short video I saw.

The OP was asking to look at the vid and give an opinion of whether they looked to be showing signs of poisoning or not.

I don't like to 'shoot from the hip' when giving advice.


@Wendi, I never said nitrites aren't dangerous, just thought I'd share a little more knowledge on the subject rather than throw the mantra at them and call it a day.


It's nothing personal, I just strive for accuracy (or in many cases just a broader view through differing opinions) especially when it comes to giving advice.

 

[treym563]

Tested this morning and got 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 10-20 nitrates. I'm wondering if there might still be traces of nitrites throwing off my nitrate measurment, 20 ppm nitrate since I added the fish yesterday seems a little off. Later today when I get home from work I'll do another 50% WC to get that down. Didn't notice any gill flaring or any discoloring around the gills this morning so I'm hoping all will be well while I'm at work today.

 

[Mr. Limpet]

Tested this morning and got 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 10-20 nitrates. I'm wondering if there might still be traces of nitrites throwing off my nitrate measurment, 20 ppm nitrate since I added the fish yesterday seems a little off. Later today when I get home from work I'll do another 50% WC to get that down. Didn't notice any gill flaring or any discoloring around the gills this morning so I'm hoping all will be well while I'm at work today.

Those numbers look great to me. Any no3 below 40ppm is fine and if the numbers stay that way, I'd say your cycle has stabilized.

Good job

 

[treym563]

Thanks for the advice everyone, it's really nice to have experienced people to help out noobies like me