At my wits end

[NascarPaul]

Ok I know this is gonna sound like a really stupid question,but I have a high ammonia tank and cant figure out why.One tank a ten gal has been running 3 weeks and had an ich problem which is now cured.I did use ammo-loc at first but havent in 2 weeks.Its ammonia is 8.0 +.I have another 10 gal....lost 3 tetras this week,and it too has a high ammonia 8.0+.I just started a 55 gal,it has 6 long tailed zebra danios and 6 dwarf african frogs.It has been running a week and shows a high ammonia 7.0.Here is the stupid question,I have cats.Can ammonia be in the air and entering the tank that way?Like I said I know it might sound stupid,but I have no other clue as to the high ammonia.....nitrites in 1 10 gal are .25 ppm,the other shows 0 nitrites.Please help.......i am at a loss.TIA,

Paul

 

[LAGlocker]

If you have just started these tanks up, then the ammonia readings are probably right. Generally when you start a tank up the ammonia jumps up drastically until the nitrites reproduce to bring them down, then nitrites sky rocket until nitrates come along and bring them down. Over time your ammonia and nitrites should reach 0ppm and the nitrates will slowly rise. This is of course once the tank has finished cycling. Until then do small water changes usually daily to keep the ammonia from stressing the fish out to the point of death, or out right killing them. The same for the nitrites. There is a very good article on this site about the nitrogen cycle which explains this in much more detail.

 

[tkos]

Yeah, those high levels can be expected and is why we often advocate fishless cycling to avoid fish deaths.

Start doing major water changes. Don't let that ammonia get over 1 ppm while it is cycling. Don't let nitrite get over 0.25 ppm. Do as many water changes as it takes.

This is also the reason it isn't advisable to add too many chemicals to your water. If you have to do major water changes then things get expensive and tricky. Just a good dechlorinator.

 

[jsoong]

With ammonia of 8 I would suggest doing LARGE water changes. Your tanks has not cycled, and the high NH3 is why you are losing fish & getting into ich, etc.

During cycling, it is recommended that you keep the NH3 less than 1. Generally you do this by stocking the tank very slowly, feeding sparingly, and doing lots of water changes. <Incidentally, the ammonia in the tanks comes from the fish. Cats - being mammals, makes urea, not ammonia.>

Small water changes are preferable to large ones. But with NH3 that high, I would go for large changes to get the levels down ASAP. As long as the temperature & pH match that of the tank, you shouldn't run into much problems. (OK, you also should match osmolarity, salinity, etc. But as long as the water in change water & tank comes from the same source, these parameters should be the same.)

I would suggest 50% water change daily till the NH3 levels comes down, then you can go for smaller water changes to keep levels under control.

BTW, a good source of info on cycling (& fish keeping in general) is the krib FAQ. You can find this here:

http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin.html

 

[NascarPaul]

Thank you tkos and jsoong...I know I made some Serious mistakes on the 2 ten gal.....just trying to do all i can an using what I have learned to not make the same mistakes on my 55 gal.All the advice is helpful.Ill start doing water changes asap.thanks again,
Paul

 

[Guest]

Here is the stupid question,I have cats.Can ammonia be in the air and entering the tank that way?

Everyone else has answered the rest of the ammonia issues quite well. Here's my take on cats (I have them too). I have no official science to back me up on this either. Only if you have a really dirty foul litter box in the same room, or a cat that pees on something IN the room with your tanks, will there be enough ammonia in the air to affect the levels in your water. Even then it wouldn't be much ammonia. I got a dog recently, and one of my cats started peeing in my fish room, on the carpet. So I started testing my water more in there, the tanks did have a slight rise, but it went down quickly when my cat got back to normal litter box habits.

 

[NascarPaul]

Thank you...wasnt sure if I was crazy for thinking that.The other thing I thought is I just started out with such a high bio load of fish that I havent given the nitrites near enough time to develop.I am doing 50% water changes daily on both tanks.My 55 gal seems to be doing ok...its ammonia is 1.5 ppm and I will do a 25% water change on it tomorrow.Thanks again for all the help,this is challenging,frustrating,make you want to pull your hair out,but most of all.......its FUN

 

[Allivymar]

*grins*

Amazing how such a frustrating (at times) hobby can be such a joy. Wait till all your water parameters settle and things are running smoothly; you'll be surprised at how many more tanks you'll discover you neeeeeeeeeed

 

[NascarPaul]

LOL this started with 1 10 gal.then three days later it was 2 10 gal....then 2 weeks after that it was a 55 gal.Its been 2 weeks since i got the 55 gal up and running..wife is starting to worry Ill go get a 125 gal now I told her not to worry.I am working on a place to put it first..Thanks for all the priceless info.....this ammonia battle is a tough one....but with persistence i will win.BTW...with ammonia that high....I thought I would be losing fish daily....but the are doing well (I think),normal swim patterns...full fins etc.......I did another test last night and its down to about 4 ppm.Did another 50% water change and will test it again this evening after I get off work.Ill post the results.
Thanks again for all the patience and help,
Paul

 

[nejsux]

BTW, when you use ammo-lock or such, it will "lock" or molecularly bond your ammonia, but it will still show up on the tests. It just converts the ammonia to a form that is non-toxic. IMO, using it until you have your ammonia levels under control is not a bad idea. In my experience, it doesn't do much harm or affect anything other than harmful substances in your tank.

 

[NascarPaul]

I was told it will throw of my ammonia readings.With ammonia this high....I would think that I would be losing fish daily,but I am not.Maybe I just dont want to believe the test.

 

[NascarPaul]

I used ammo-loc....was told it would give a false reading,so i stopped.If ammonia levels are that high,I would expect that all of my fish would have perished by now.....but they all seem healthy...I"m sooooooooooooooo confused!

 

[jsoong]

Toxicity of Ammonia also depends on pH. If your pH is low, more of the ammonia is converted to NH4+, which is not toxic.

According to my chart, if your pH is in the 6's, then ammonia levels of 8 is still non-toxic.

Also, depends on what dechlor you used to treat the water, some will also bind ammonia, lessening the toxicity.